It's November and winter is coming. In fact, in some parts of the country, it's already here. In this episode, Eric and Jarred cover how your geographic location affects winterization, how the type of pool cover you have can affect your chemistry, and how different types of pool surfaces react differently to bad LSI balance and cold water.
00:19 - Episode Takeaways
02:52 - How to Prepare Your Pool for The Winter
08:18 - Origin Story of the Orenda Winterization procedure.
11:50 - Considerations for Mesh Covers
17:32 - Considerations for Solid covers
21:19 - Consequences for Bad Winterization
26:37 - How do you prevent a pool from turning brown and disgusting during the winter time?
Ep 11_Winter Is Coming
ERIC [00:00:00] Hey, everybody, welcome back to the Rule Your Pool Podcast, I am your host, Eric Kight, and with me, as usual, my co-host, Jared Morgan. Jared, thanks for being here.
JARRED [00:00:09] Well, I'm glad to be back. I know we had a fill in for the last couple of episodes, but I'm very disappointed to miss it. But I'm here today.
ERIC [00:00:17] Well, you are. And today is episode 11. [00:00:19]And we are talking about winterization because it's November and winter is coming. In fact, in some parts of the country, it's already here. And so the takeaways from today's episode are the temperature swings that you experience in your area are going to determine how you have to winterize your pool. People in northern Michigan are going to have to winterize a little different than where I am in the Carolinas. The second takeaway is the type of cover you have actually matters more than the type of surface. Now there's different consequences to different surfaces like cement based pebble, quartz, plaster, etc., versus a liner or fiberglass. But the type of cover, i.e. mesh versus solid or mesh, maybe no cover versus solid, that actually has a bigger impact on your winterization procedure. So let's get right into it. I mean, this should be a pretty short, simple episode.
JARRED [00:01:15] It should be short. What I would like to touch on is when we were referring to winterizing your pool, for those of us in Southern California, in California, Arizona, Texas, Florida, we don't really close or Winterize pools per say pretty much it's Midwest, north, northwest that's closing a, pool down. And when we're talking about closing a pool. It's closing with a cover, getting all the leaves out, getting your chemicals balanced and adjusted, winterizing the plumbing so that nothing freezes or freeze damage doesn't occur when winter is happening. So this is what we're talking about. And what we're going to talk about specifically today is the chemical and the aspects that those play in damaging or potentially damaging surfaces, I'm assuming, and the right things to do.
ERIC [00:02:07] Yeah, and and by the way, closing itself, you could still have your pool open and circulating in some of those areas, but the temperature still drops. So let's get right into it. This is Episode 11 of The Rule Your Pool podcast. Let's go.
INTRO [00:02:27] [INTRODUCTION MUSIC AND NARRATION.]
ERIC [00:02:49] OK, so, Jared, you live in Texas. What is the coldest temperature that your pool could potentially get? And I'm talking water temperature.
JARRED [00:02:57] Water temperature generally hovers around 40 degrees.
ERIC [00:03:03] At the coldest? So like in January, 40 degrees?
JARRED [00:03:06] And I'm north Texas too. So it could get colder in other places. But where we are, it's it's about 40.
ERIC [00:03:11] And you, I presume, have a thermometer in your pool that tells you that?
JARRED [00:03:15] I do. I have an automated system that tells me my temperature, which is great. But yeah, I have a thermometer.
ERIC [00:03:23] OK, so that brings up an interesting point right there that I want to tackle before we get into the winterization procedure. Your automated thermometer is great when it's circulating water, but it's really telling you the temperature of the water in your plumbing. I want to know what is the temperature in the vessel. And so what we often recommend at Orenda, I'm glad you bring this up is we recommend having an analog thermometer, if nothing else, as a double-check, put it in your skimmer and then dangle in into your pool when you're there. Just so you know, the temperature, the thing is less than 10 bucks, but it's really, really accurate. It's just a thermometer. No batteries required. But knowing the temperature, especially in the coldest parts of your winter, is a big advantage. And, you know, because the water gets colder in the northern climates, you might think that they're at more risk. And in some ways, they are of pool damage in the winter because, as we know, cold water lowers the LSI, which we discussed in previous episodes. But they almost have an advantage because your pool is not going to freeze in Texas, is it?
JARRED [00:04:26] No, it's not. And you bring up a good point that I'm relying on my temperature sensor and I'm assuming it's working and calibrated properly too.
ERIC [00:04:34] Yeah, well, you are. But -
JARRED [00:04:35] Having a backup is a good idea.
ERIC [00:04:37] Yeah. But furthermore, you don't know what the worst case scenario is. You could have a really mild winter or you could have a harsh winter and you don't know it could be 40. It may be could be 48. One summer. I'm sorry. One winter.
JARRED [00:04:48] Absolutely. Yeah.
ERIC [00:04:49] So it's actually an advantage to be in a place that it's guaranteed it's going to freeze northern Pennsylvania, New York, upstate, all of New England, Michigan, et cetera, guarantee the pool is going to freeze. So you don't have to worry about it because you know what the worst case scenario is and that is what's going to drive your winterization procedure. So there are two sides to winterization. There is balance, LSI balance, which is what we're going to focus on in this episode. And there's also keeping the water clean. I would normally say sanitization, but it's really more of prevention to keep the water clean while it's closed up for the wintertime. So let's focus on balance. And that's really the LSI. The key here, if you're going to write anything down from this episode, is proper winterization keeps your LSI balanced all winter long. That's the bottom line, if you know that your pool is going to freeze, use the Orenda app, it's free. Drop that temperature down to thirty two degrees Fahrenheit or zero degrees Celsius for our friends in Canada. Listening to this, drop it down to freezing. See what that does to the chemistry. Now, your question is, how do you get that number at freezing temperature to be balanced on the LSI? We're going to get into a little bit of nuance between the two types of covers, meaning solid covers versus mesh or no cover in that case, because they have different environmental factors that can change that chemistry over the winter. But the point remains the same. Whatever your worst case, coldest temperature is going to be, you have to be in the green on the LSI at that temperature. Jared, is there anything you want to add to that?
JARRED [00:06:34] Yeah, and you just kind of go back to the whole LSI conversation and people's perception of calcium in the water. It's something that we obviously preach and talk about all the time is don't be afraid of higher calcium levels, which I know we're going to touch on. But I just had a customer this week, send me an email, because I recommended he closed his pool at four hundred fifty to five hundred parts per million calcium, and he went to his local pool store and he sent me an email back and said, hey, my local pool store said that if I closed my pool that high, I'm going to have scale. And I -
ERIC [00:07:10] How many times we heard that?
JARRED [00:07:12] And don't get me wrong, trust me, I didn't know it before we got to the deep dove on the LSI, but it's just, hey, yeah, we all have to understand that as this temperature goes down, something has to compensate for it.
ERIC [00:07:24] You're absolutely right. And this is not a knock on any of the pool stores or any of the pool professionals that didn't realize the impact of temperature, because just like you said, until we created the LSI calculator, we didn't understand the impact of temperature until you can see it. So it's not an indictment on anybody. But I mean, Jarred, let's be honest, how many calls do we get where we're giving conflicting information to the pool store because we know more about the LSI?
JARRED [00:07:47] Absolutely. And it's part of our whole motto here is changing the way the world thinks about water. I mean, there's a lot that goes into balancing water and we are just as guilty as the next person on learning something every day. And hopefully we try to pass that message on to everybody else and hopefully it just spreads that way. But one at a time.
ERIC [00:08:08] We don't own any of this information. We're here to share it and simplify it so that you can understand it. But we don't own any of the information. So that being said, [00:08:18]this whole thing started, I guess, three years ago now. And I'm with a customer in Pennsylvania and they have scale. Scale every spring they open up and there's scale and they start showing me photos of this and it doesn't seem like scale. And at the time we had had the calculator out for, I don't know, six months and we knew a lot more about temperature. Got me thinking scale doesn't form in cold temperature very easily. How do you get the LSI to go on our app Purple? The number turns purple if it's scale forming. How do you get the algaecide that high when the temperature is that low? The answer is you don't. [33.8s] You'd have to really. I mean you could but you'd have to really, really try hard. And they certainly didn't. And so because they thought it was scale. And by the way, this is like everybody in the Northeast, not just this company, because they thought they were looking at scale when they would open up in the spring. And there's white stuff everywhere, sharp little crystals. They're like, oh, well, we have too much calcium going into the wintertime. Wrong, wrong. Take away. You didn't have nearly enough and therefore it was stealing calcium from the surface. And we'll do a whole episode on crystals. I don't want to go down that rabbit hole right now, but the point is, [00:09:30]you got to think of a winterized pool, kind of like a hibernating grizzly bear. You have to feed that bear before it hibernates. Otherwise it's going to wake up and it's going to be hungry. It's going to be pissed off. [10.9s] And so what's it going to do? It's going to look for calcium anywhere it can find it. And of course, in a cement base pool, it's everywhere. In an all tile pool, it's in the grout. So actually, I had a call yesterday from a pool, that's all marble tile and which is rare, by the way, but all marble tile. But on all the grout, they had little sharp white crystals, not on the marble, just the grout, which tells me that's an etching problem. So you have to have enough calcium saturation. And that's what really leads into why the covers, the type of cover you have actually matters. So the bottom line is, LSI balance in the winter means you have to have enough of it to get through the winter. So there's there's really two categories I want to divide here. The solid covered pools, which means no rain and snow can get in and no air can escape. And then the mesh or no covered pools, which means rain and snow can eventually get in and air can also escape the pool to huge aspects of this.
JARRED [00:10:45] What's I think what percentage do you think our solid coverage versus mesh?
ERIC [00:10:50] I have no I have no idea. You know, I was researching this blog that I'm currently writing now, and it'll be published by the time this podcast is out. But I was talking to Makow Covers and Leupp blog and. Latham and a bunch of these other companies, I have no idea what it is, because they all sell so many of them. It could be 50 50. I mean, irrelevant. What matters is whoever's listening to this. Just know what type of cover you have, if it's porous or not, if it lets water in or out, that's what really matters here. Where are you going with that, Jared?
JARRED [00:11:27] I was just I was going to assume that I didn't know you had the direct answer. Most of them are probably mesh covers.
ERIC [00:11:35] It could be I mean, the one I just did last week was solid, so, yeah,.
JARRED [00:11:40] I didn't know in your journey of research did you have this?
ERIC [00:11:45] So OK, anyway, which one you want to start with, solid or mesh Jarred?
JARRED [00:11:49] Let's go with Mesh.
ERIC [00:11:50] [00:11:50]OK, mesh covers. You have to winterize with more calcium than you think because rain and snow. Jared, what's the calcium hardness and rain. [9.0s]
JARRED [00:12:00] It's that's a good zero.
ERIC [00:12:02] Oh yeah. And snow too because it precipitates from the sky. So it's basically distilled water. Rain and snow have zero calcium. They are extremely aggressive on the LSI and depending on where you live, acid rain could be a thing. Not everywhere. But I've seen pHs range on on rainwater quite a bit, actually, which is surprising. But calcium doesn't range at all. It's always zero parts per million. That is going to dilute your pool if you have a mesh cover or no cover at all, rain or snow will get into that water and it will dilute your number down. So if you winterize at, say, three hundred parts per million and your pool is going to be in a cold climate, 40 or below or whatever, you're not going to have three hundred when you open up in the spring. It could be 250, it could be even two. It could be diluted by half. If you have enough that it triggers an overflow or whatever else, a lot of winterized pools will actually lower their water level below the return inlets so that they can blow the water out of those lines and then they just let it kind of refill from rain and snow. Well, of course, you're going to have an LSI violation if you have two feet of water that came from the sky and diluted that number down. So the key here is you have to really overfeed that water with calcium. And you don't necessarily have to worry about pH though, with mesh covers or no covers. Thanks to Henry's law, which we discussed earlier, I think, and one of the first three episodes about how carbon dioxide is going to equalize with the air above it, that's one advantage you have with a mesh cover. CO2 can escape. So as long as it doesn't etch, your is going to naturally rise up to its ceiling, which is typically about eight point two. And that's to your advantage. So take your temperature down on the Orenda app, drop it all the way down to its coldest possible point. In most cases. We're talking freezing here. Drop it down to that temperature and put the pH up to eight point two. You're going to realize it's not an insane number of calcium that you need. But I will tell you with mesh covers, if your pool freezes two years ago, we thought a bare minimum. Four hundred calcium. Right. Remember that, Jared?
JARRED [00:14:15] Uh huh.
ERIC [00:14:15] That's before we were thinking about dilution. We're learning as we go as well, but because calcium has zero, I'm sorry, because rain and snow have zero calcium hardness, you need more calcium to winterize because that number is just going to go down. That's why we now say, for mesh covers in a climate that's going to freeze, you want more than five hundred more like five hundred to six hundred calcium hardness. Don't freak out about high numbers because the dilution will bring it down. And knowing the LSI you can maintain higher numbers. You could have four hundred and fifty in the summertime in Pennsylvania and have no issues. You don't have to scale those pools. There's different strategies that you can maintain. So you need more calcium. But understand that your pH, if you do it right, is going to naturally rise up. What you want to avoid is under saturating it so that it etches some of the cement, in which case it pulls twelve point six calcium hydroxide. And that's what spikes your pH. So if you've ever come back to your pool and you open it up in the off the charts like super, super high, you know that you didn't have enough calcium in that pool.
JARRED [00:15:28] Well, that touch base and say we say every day, if the worst thing that we did over the winter time was scaled a pool, we have no issues,.
ERIC [00:15:38] We win.
JARRED [00:15:38] We can fix scale.
ERIC [00:15:38] Yeah, win, man, that's great. You win the prize because that's like it's almost like a shield. It's like you just put a little bit more fat on that whale before it went into the winter time. Right. You just had more insulation than you needed.
JARRED [00:15:53] I mean, our chemicals, there's other chemicals on the market. We're not the only ones that control scaled up on surfaces. So and that comes off very easily.But unfortunately, we cannot put cement back into the plaster.
ERIC [00:16:06] Man, crystals depending on the type of crystal you have. We know of at least four different types. We think there's more... Two of them. They're really easy to get rid of. Two of them, they're very hard, like almost impossible. Some that you have to, like, physically drain the pool and grind them off with a diamond pad that I don't know why those form versus others, but we do know that [00:16:28]all of these crystals form in cold, stagnant water because of an LSI violation. [4.0s] We want to prevent that. So if you do actually get some scale in the wintertime, don't panic. It's very easy to clean up in the springtime. So that's kind of one of the the takeaways here is that er high, if you're going to err anywhere, always err high because you just don't know how much dilution you're going to get. I live in Charlotte and every November and December we get so much rain here that the summer is pretty much a drought, but we get a ton of rain. I don't know how many inches that would be in a swimming pool, but consistently it's raining at least two days a week throughout November. And I remember this because I was having some yard work done and it was just muddy the entire November. So depending on where you live, keep that into consideration. And if you get one of these hurricane storms, that counts, too. I know that that doesn't typically go north, but rain has zero calcium in it. So that's a mesh cover. [00:17:32]Solid covers are a little different because they don't allow rain and snow into your pool. [4.0s] But on the flip side of that, they also don't allow carbon dioxide to escape and therefore the pH that you close with is pretty much going to be the way that you open with unless it etches. So if you don't have enough calcium in there for the coldest temperature, it's going to etch and you're going to have a sky high pH and all bets are off anyway. These [00:17:58]solid covers are the ones where you see things like winter dust, [2.6s] where the water edges and edges and edges as it gets colder because it's trying to equalize the LSI well, it finally gets to its lowest temperature, let's say, second week of December, OK? And it's in LSI Harmony at that point, but it etched its way there up until, you know, late February. Then it starts to warm up in March. Well, you were satisfied on the LSI at thirty two degrees or at the bottom of the temperature. Whatever it is, the temperature starts going up. By the time you get there in late April to open up the pool, it could be a 30 degree difference from the coldest. You know what I'm talking about, Jared? Like you could be there to be 60 degrees when you start opening it up. That's a huge difference on the LSI, so what happened was you were balanced at the coldest temperature, but now that the temperature has gone up 30 degrees, you know, water can't start oversaturate itself, but the temperature can change. So it does. And now you have an LSI scale forming condition and it starts precipitating dust everywhere. And that's what winter dust is. So we've seen this before. It is more common with solid covers than mesh, but I've seen it happen on mesh covers too. So the consequences for these cement based finishes, crystals or dust or whatever, you just have to know which type of of strategy you're going to do based on the cover you have. But here's the thing, Jared. I don't care if you have a vinyl liner pool or a fiberglass pool, you still need a winterize. With LSI in mind based on the water temperature and the cover you have, would you agree?
JARRED [00:19:43] Absolutely. What, closing a pool down. A lot of people have the idea of dropping the pH low and super chlorinating to get it ready for the winter time. What is the ideal pH do you think for closing?
ERIC [00:19:59] Depends on when you close. But honestly, if you're if you're about to close up, then it as long as you don't etch and you don't overcorrect is going to rise naturally on a mesh or uncovered pool. It's going to get up to its ceiling so it doesn't matter where you close it. I don't know why you would add acid at all. If you're on a solid cover, you definitely don't want to go too low because you're going to need that higher pH in the wintertime.
JARRED [00:20:23] Well, I'm getting I'm getting calls right now and people are asking me what chemistry should they close their pool that I'm steering them towards seven, six, seven, seven at closing.
ERIC [00:20:34] Yeah, that's fine. Or seven, eight. I mean, we just winterized a pool. The only reason we had to lower the pH at all was to get the Cal Hypo in solution. That was the only reason. So we lowered the and then we added to Cal Hypo for the shock. But that was a temporary thing and we did not add a lot of acid. So it was a vinyl liner pool. But that's a great question because these winterization kits give you parameters that you're supposed to hit, as if you can maintain a seven four pH, you know, throughout the winter. That's ridiculous. That's not going to happen. In a solid cover pool, though. Theoretically, if you had enough calcium hardness, it could happen because CO2 cannot escape. So you got to you know, there's factors here. It's the type of surface you have, but really it's the type of cover you have. [00:21:19]And my last takeaway on this is that the consequences vary. We talked about the winter dust and the crystals on cement based pools and of course, the spiking pH. What about vinyl liner and fiberglass pools? [12.5s] What consequence has happened during the winter there, Gerard? Do you know of any?
JARRED [00:21:37] I know wrinkling and fading.
ERIC [00:21:39] Wrinkling might be one of wrinkling is kind of tough, I'm not sure we can speak to that because that happens for a variance of reasons. But certainly fading of vinyl liners happens almost always during the wintertime. People think it's from over chlorination. No, that's not true. It's an LSI violation. What about fiberglass.
JARRED [00:22:00] Gel coat problems?
ERIC [00:22:01] Yup. You ever heard of chalking? Chalking is - we're also doing some research on this now, everyone thinks it's scale, I know, we sure did. It sure looks like scale, but it's not. Chalking is when your fiberglass pool just starts looking hazy and lighter and white. And what that is, is an LSI violation breaking down the gel coat because, again, water is blind and it's starving for calcium. So it's just digging. It's looking for calcium anywhere it can find it. And since you didn't feed it on winterization, it's attacking your gel coat, hoping there's calcium on the other side. I mean, that's not a chemical perfect explanation, but it's a good visual, so it's going to break down the gel coat and once you break through that gel coat. It starts to get oxidized by chlorine. Now, that doesn't really happen very fast when the temperature is cold, but it happens really easily in the springtime because as the water heats up and you start chlorinating again, that gel coat is compromised, boom, you start getting oxidized gel coat and that actually turns white. Depends. There's different polymers. There's different things in these codes. But the point is, by and large, chalking or hazing of these fiberglass pools is an LSI violation. And it's not a good one. You can't undo it. So I think we've covered everything we need to for the balance of of a winterization, haven't we?
JARRED [00:23:28] I think we have. And I think we still stand behind our message that the majority of the surface damage occurs over the winter time. So this is a very important time to not neglect it. And every even if you don't a close a pool down like in like I said, Arizona, California, Texas, Florida, these customers and homeowners that go off a service over the winter time to save some money and think that they're just going to maintain it themselves through their normal regimen of maintaining a hold like they do in the summertime. Damage is still occurring. So it's very important to follow the LSI during the winter cold months and sell that as a service to your customers. Hey, I am going to balance this thing the properly way or the proper way and make sure that I minimize any potential service damage, because as the temperature goes down, that's when most of it happens. So use it as an opportunity.
ERIC [00:24:30] Mm hmm. Well, to expand upon that, the the companies that have the most success with winterization, at least following our program, are the ones that have introduced a winter watch kind of program. They may not have had it before. Some of them already did. But all you're doing is checking the temperature with an analog thermometer or a temperature pen, something that's not in the plumbing, but actually the pool. Check the temperature. Check, the calcium hardness, check to check the alkalinity, raise the calcium hardness as necessary. You almost never have to raise alkalinity or pH in a pool because again, the pH is going to rise naturally through off gassing unless you have a solid cover. But it's almost always calcium that the water is going to need. So calcium is your best friend. Use it regardless of the surface type that you have. Don't be afraid of higher calcium. So in a short recap for balance mesh covers, you're going to want if your pool freezes five hundred a six hundred calcium harness, again, that will dilute down to probably just below four hundred after winter. If you have a mesh cover, if you have a solid cover, you're going to want about four hundred to five hundred depending on how cold your temperature gets. Don't be afraid of going higher, but you don't necessarily need to because you don't have to contend with dilution. But apart from that, that's pretty much the name of the game is LSI balance. So find out what parameters work for you. If you have a solid cover, you don't get the benefit of dilution for things like cyanuric acid. If you had a trichlor pool, your trichlor you're sorry, your cyanuric acid is not going to get diluted by rain, whereas a mesh cover pool, that's awesome. You you reduce your TDS, reduce your cyanuric acid just via dilution. You don't have that benefit. So keep that in mind. You have to put those factors into the Orenda app to get a real picture of how much calcium you need, because if you had one hundred CIA, you're going to need more than 450 calcium in a solid cover pool because you don't have that dilution. So keep that in mind. As a final note here, we just covered ninety percent of this episode was about water balance, and that's really what the topic was. Just as a bonus, [00:26:37]how do you prevent it from flipping? And I don't want to say turning green, but really turning brown and disgusting during the winter time. [7.4s] Jared, what do you recommend on closing? Because these closing kits contain things like algaecide and antifreeze and all sorts of things.
JARRED [00:26:55] I mean, mainly it's number one getting as much of the debris and stuff out of the pool and keeping it that way as long as possible. But we always tell people close with enzymes in the water temperature is going down. It still will help as the temperature goes up with organic non-living organic management and making that water as efficient as possible. And as we're adding water in the springtime and so forth, we're definitely going to on to work in a stain, metal control and things like that.
ERIC [00:27:27] But that's in the spring. That's in spring. Not in the winter.
JARRED [00:27:31] No, not in the winter. We don't generally recommend our our product. At least I can't speak for others, but we generally do not recommend it in the winter time. And if you do put it in, we I always tell customers, hey, get the product SC-1000 in the water, at least two to three weeks. Prior to closing, so that when you do close it, you can get the water balance where you want it.
ERIC [00:27:53] Yeah, well, that's because the temperature won't allow it to activate. So it's pretty useless unless you're adding calcium that gets really hot when you dissolve it. You add a tablespoon of SC-1000 pre-chelate that calcium. That's smart because it's plenty hot. It's going to activate just fine. That's a smart procedure. If you're adding calcium, just put the SC-1000 in the hot calcium. Otherwise you put it in 60 degree water or colder is not going to do anything.
JARRED [00:28:19] It'll do something, just not not the way it's supposed to.
ERIC [00:28:23] Well, yeah. I mean, it's not going to let go, but now it's also not going to activate very well. And that goes for as far as I know, every sequestering agent, not a knock on any product. It's just chemistry slows down when the water temperature gets lower. [00:28:37]Phosphate removal is another thing that you can do, but you shouldn't do it on closing day because the precipitate is going to fall out and it's just going to make a mess. So you have to clean that out. [7.6s] So do that at least a week or two beforehand. But the final thing I want to talk about is [00:28:49]clean the surface of your cover off periodically. If it gets buried and leaves especially a mesh cover, it becomes almost like a T, like a teabag that, you know, rain and snow will take tannins from these leaves and it'll actually just go and bleed into your water [15.6s] and your water will be brown and it can stain with organic stains. Enzymes can help with tannins, but they can't do it all, especially when the water's really, really cold. So do your part, get a leaf blower, keep the cover clean periodically. Get those leaves off of there. Get the pine needles off. Pine needles, I learned, are pretty acidic. So they'll actually lower the in a mesh cover. So just keep these things in mind, keep the cover clean. Those are some best practices. For more information, go to Procedures.Orendatech.com - that's Procecures.Orendatech.com We have our winterization and our spring opening procedure in there. So all that information is available online. Thank you. This has been Episode 11 of The Rule Your Pool podcast, Winter is coming. Jared, is there any final thoughts?
JARRED [00:29:57] Nope. I think we've covered the bases here and I appreciate everybody for listening. And if you like I said, have any questions, feel free to reach out to us in a number of ways.
ERIC [00:30:05] Yeah, we're all over social media. So anyways, thank you so much for your time.
OUTRO [00:30:09] OUTRO NARRATION
ERIC [00:30:26] I hope you find this show valuable enough that you tap that subscribe button and share it with your friends. You can also like us on Facebook and social media. With our help, you'll be able to rule your pool without overtreating up with chemicals wasting money. I'll see you next episode.