Eric is going to debate chemistry with Rudy, the host of the Talking Pools Podcast. Submit your questions and topics! In this episode, Eric goes through four tested samples of natural water from the Atlantic Ocean, a lake, and two ponds. All have different chemistry, but all equal 0.00 LSI. Water ALWAYS returns to its natural state.
[00:00] - Intro
[02:39] - My Upcoming Debate with Rudy Stankowitz
[07:31] - Testing Natural Water
[08:16] - Testing Ocean Water
[10:55] - Testing a lake and two ponds
[14:03] - High pH in water with algae: Eutrophication
[15:29] - Takeaways
199. Water in its Natural State
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Eric Knight: Welcome back everybody to the Rule Your Pool podcast. I'm your host Eric Knight, and this is episode 199. I am sorry for taking a few weeks to get to this. Ever since I came over to PoolBrain, we hit the ground running. We're working on something very cool. Um, it's not-- it's more than cool. It's going to be amazing.
It's going to help pool pros and service and repair companies in an immense way with water chemistry. I'm super excited about it. It's actually something I wanted to do years and years ago at Orenda, but because Orenda had its limitations on what we knew about the pool, we couldn't actually do it. So I had it kind of stashed away in my ideas spreadsheet.
I really wanted to do this, and now we can. It is amazing. So, um, I can't really tell you too much more than that because it's in development as we speak, um, and I don't know the timeline, and then we have to test it and all that stuff. But I will tell you right now, if you are a PoolBrain user, you're going to like this if you like the LSI.
And you know, a lot of companies don't understand it enough, and that's why they don't implement it. They like it in theory, but then the question is like, well, okay, LSI sounds great. How do I use it? Like, what do I aim for on the right side of the calculator? Well, that's all going to be resolved, and that's all I'll say on that.
Now, uh, some other parts of housekeeping on this, this is the 199th episode, which means the next episode is going to have Jarred on it. Yes, enough of you have asked to have Jarred back, which kind of grinds my gears a little bit because he contributes like less than nothing to the show. But he was my co-host for a long time, and I do love the guy.
So he's going to be on. We don't-- we actually don't know what we're going to talk about, but enough of you keep pestering me about it. It's honestly, it's getting old. So I'm going to have him on there to just kind of quell the audience.
I do want to thank so many of you who reach out with great questions, episode ideas, and it's not just at ruleyourpool@gmail.com, which is where a lot of them come in. It's through Facebook, it's through LinkedIn, it's text messages, calls, phone. All of that is very nice to hear, and I, I'm so grateful that you are listening to this show.
It's nice to build this audience back because when we stopped in 2025, we had reached a point where, I mean, we were really reaching a lot of you, and it was nice. We joked it was only like 300, but we are gaining that back, and that's because of you. You are telling your friends, you're sharing it amongst your companies, and I'm hearing from people that heard it from word of mouth from another pro or from their homeowner actually.
Uh, quite a few listeners actually said, "Yeah, actually, my homeowner listened to your podcast. They told me about it." So I, I think that's pretty cool. Um, but enough about this. Um, I do have another thing to announce.
[00:02:39] My Upcoming Debate with Rudy
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Eric Knight: Those of you who are in the industry are fully aware that there are differences in opinions on water chemistry. I have become a contrarian, not that I'm trying to be contrarian. I'm, I'm in the pursuit of truth, and I have zero problem calling out things that don't make sense to me.
But apparently, that is quite controversial, and there are quite a few people and institutions, I should say, that wish that I didn't have this podcast and wish that we didn't have this great audience like you to listen to it. And I love that. Uh, it be-- not because it's contrarian. I love that we have freedom of information, that we have free speech, that I'm able to say these things because I do care about the health and safety of swimmers. I am one. I actually just swam recently, which I haven't done in a long time.
But I love swimming. I love the sport. I used to spend hours a day in pools, which is something that most pool people just didn't do. I lived in the water. This was a huge part of my life, and so the health and safety of swimmers is paramount to me. And yet I hear people telling me, "Well, why do you teach that chlorine doesn't matter?"
You know, "Why are you saying it's all about LSI, sanitation?" As if, as if I teach, "Oh, you only need LSI. You don't need to chlorinate your pools." I have never taught that. But there seems to be a belief, and that's people putting words in my mouth, and I'm tired of it. I am sick and tired of it. I've never taught that you don't need sanitation.
I did teach that water balance is different from sanitation, but not that you need only one. It's two sides of water chemistry, right? So anyway, in the spirit of that, uh, I have talked to Rudy quite a bit. Rudy runs the Talking Pools podcast. I think a lot of you are probably listening to that as well.
Rudy and I have agreed, because he disagrees with me on a lot of chemistry, but we do share one thing in common. We care deeply about pool pros. We care about you being successful. We want you to deliver safe, clean water to your customers, period. We are in lockstep on that, but we disagree on certain things, and he's talked about it on his show.
Uh, and bottom line is I love free speech, and I love the idea of having a debate. So that's exactly what we're going to do. We are going to discuss, and we are going to debate what our differences are, but we're going to answer questions. It's an ask us anything sort of thing. We're going to take questions in.
It might be a long episode, probably will be. Um, but I've already put out a Facebook post asking for questions. I've had a lot of direct messages, a lot of responses from that. And so if you want to hear any topics discussed or debated or, or whatever on the show, I'm going to have Rudy on here.
And then I think the way I'm thinking is we're going to record it once, and then we're actually going to publish it on both platforms so that his audience hears it, my audience hears it. There's probably some overlap, but the idea is transparency. So ask us anything, and it, nothing is too controversial, as long as it's relevant, you know?
As, as long as it's something to do with what we do, you know? Like, don't, don't ask us about things that we have zero knowledge on. You know, that doesn't, that doesn't make sense. But if you have questions or you have topics you want us to discuss and debate, send them in, ruleyourpool@gmail.com. And like I said, as long as it's relevant, nothing's really off limits because we-- I wouldn't say it's ever been hostile, but it has definitely been contentious at times when we disagree on things, and I think that's healthy.
So we want to do this for the benefit of the pros so that you can hear different perspectives. I might not be 100% right. I'm probably not 100% right on much of anything. But I, I back up my decisions, and I back up what I teach based on what I learn and what I see in the field. So does Rudy, okay? So if you have any questions or topics that you would like Rudy Stankiewicz and I to debate on the show, send them in to ruleyourpool@gmail.com by October 1st. And we will record it sometime in October. We are going to try to get to every question that we can.
And like I said, it's ask us anything. But we also have some topics that are known differences like pH ceiling, the importance of LSI, cyanuric acid. We're going to get into a lot of that. And I'm excited about that because you, listeners, deserve to have different perspectives on the same topics and on different topics.
I mean, for, for instance, I don't know a fraction of what that dude knows about algae. Straight up. I j- I just don't. And he doesn't know a fraction of what I know about chloramines and swimming indoors specifically, like the health effects that I actually personally suffered. And that's cool because you're going to get the benefit of different areas of expertise.
I was never a pool pro. You know that. I've never pretended to be. But I have studied a lot, and I've done a ton of research to try to figure things out that customers were asking me about. And so I'm so excited to bring this to you. So again, I'm going to be discussing and debating, and I think it's going to be very cordial with Rudy, um, on both of our shows.
You need to get your questions in by October 1st to ruleyourpool@gmail.com.
[00:07:31] Testing Natural Water
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Eric Knight: With that being said, I have a customer, got to get into this episode now. I've got a customer named Jeff in the Outer Banks. Shout out to you, Jeff. He texted me last week that he went to the Atlantic Ocean, and he sampled it and threw it in his SpinTouch, and it was a 0.0 LSI.
Hmm. Haven't I taught that water always returns to its natural state? Well, I went back in my phone and found screenshots from the past several years. I found three of them specifically. And I tested ponds, natural water, and they're also all 0.0 LSI, but completely different chemistry. So we're going to get into that.
This is episode 199, Water in Its Natural State. Let's go.
[00:08:16] Testing Ocean Water
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Eric Knight: All right, I got my notebook here. I would have screenshots, but I have too many tabs open on the screen. So I'm going to look at the paper. I wrote down all the values on this. So let's start with what Jeff tested in the Atlantic Ocean. 80 degrees Fahrenheit, 8.1 pH. Now, mind you, he's using the Orenda app, so the dial was 8.1.
The pH ceiling's actually 8.15, so I think it's safe to assume it's 8.15, but we're going to leave it at 8.1. 45 total alkalinity, 440 calcium, no CYA, and 9500 TDS salt plus. And that's only because the Orenda calculator only goes up to 9500, um, 'cause we didn't design it for the ocean. Uh, and he also sent a photo of his SpinTouch, and it was 9,999.
Now, we know that the ocean ranges between about 30,000 to 38,000 parts per million salt mostly. Um, there might be areas that are more, but at least on the East Coast, that's what I've been told, and most sources tend to agree with that. That said, there's also 0.11 parts per million free chlorine. Who knew? I don't know where the chlorine came from, but it's pretty cool that natural water actually has some chlorine in it.
Obviously, nobody chlorinated the Atlantic Ocean, at least as far as I know. But it wasn't zero, and that's pretty cool because when you DPD test, it has to actually be present. So unless there was something way wrong with the test kit, that was pretty awesome. I've never seen chlorine in natural water.
This is the first time. Interesting. So 440 calcium. Now, you got to think, this is the ocean, right? So there's tons of limestone, I'm sure, that has dissolved over time and other sources like that. But in the other bodies of water that I tested, calcium was very low. So, uh, but granted, it was a lake and two ponds.
So I guess they have not had the same time. That ocean water is very, very old. So anyway, it all added up to 0.00 LSI. Now, if it was the full TDS of 30,000, it would be lower, I would think.
But isn't that cool? Like, that's the ocean. The ocean is naturally LSI balanced. That's amazing to me. I love that. Water will always return to its natural state.
[00:10:55] Testing a lake and two ponds
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Eric Knight: Okay, so then I went back in my, uh, screenshots that I had of the Orenda app. And if you go through my phone, there's a lot of screenshots of the Orenda app.
So I had to, like, really remember, like, context photos of where I was and, and stuff like that. And I found three. I'm sure there's more, but I found three. One of them was in Virginia near my mom's house. So I tested it. It was 76 degrees. Oh, and by the way, I use a pH probe. I have a Taylor kit normally with the drop test, but for pH, I use the LaMotte, uh, pocket tester tracer pen. It's called the, I think it's the Pocket Tester 1766. It does pH, TDS, salt, and temperature.
That way between those two kits, I can get a full LSI reading. So that's how I'm able to get specific pHs, by the way. So it had an 8.27 pH, 65 total alkalinity, 77 calcium, zero CYA, and 600 TDS, 0.0 LSI Again, pretty cool. Now, 600 TDS, when you only have 77 calcium and 65 total alkalinity, I don't know where the 600 TDS came from.
I don't know what those solids are. I would imagine a lot of it's iron, 'cause the water-- I mean, the soil is super red there, so I know there's a lot of iron in the soil, so I'm guessing iron could do it. But I, I don't-- I-- hopefully it's not hundreds of parts per million iron. I, I have no idea, but that's what it read.
So, uh, 0.0 LSI. Pretty amazing. Okay, so then that, that was 76 degrees. And I'm going by memory, I don't remember it having visible algae in it. It was just like dark water, you know?
Now, there's another one that I have that was colder. It was 67 degrees. The pH ceiling was 8.07, and the pH was also 8.07, so it was at its natural ceiling. 40 total alkalinity, 210 calcium, which is way more than the other, no CYA, and only 300 TDS. So here we are, 210 calcium, 40 total alkalinity. Add that together, that's 250, and then we only had 300 TDS. That seems like a lot more accurate.
Like, like, that seems more feasible. There's not much else in there except those two minerals. Um, but at-- here again, uh, no algae in that pool. Or I, I keep saying pool. In that pond. Uh, and it was 0.0 LSI.
So then I went to a lake, and this was in the summertime. This lake was 83 degrees, 10.32 pH. I'll get to that in a second. The pH ceiling was only 7.86, so it was a very low pH ceiling. 27 total alkalinity, 11 calcium, and yet 2,600 TDS in salt. So maybe my tester was wrong. I have no idea where all those salts would've come from. But it was a lake, and it was loaded with algae along the shores.
[00:14:03] High pH in water with algae: Eutrophication
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Eric Knight: And so my thinking is it's kind of like a green pool. What does algae consume? CO2. Every time that I've tested a green pool, with a probe anyway. It's 10.3 something. 10.32 in this case, 10.34. I have a photo on the Orenda blog where I was at a green pool and I put the TDS probe in, it was 10.34. I don't know why it's always 10.3 something exactly, but I, I had to realize, like, there's something consistent here.
Like, it, it doesn't matter where I am, the green pool is at 10.3 something. And that led me to believe it's about CO2, carbon dioxide. Because that's consistent everywhere. That's the constant. So if it's the same constant and we have to equalize with that constant, there's only so much CO2 that can be consumed by the algae, therefore the pH is going to be something in equilibrium like that.
And, and so that's why the pH is 10.32, even though the ceiling is 7.86. Algae took that CO2 out, which fundamentally changed the equilibrium. So based on the readings, you know, the pH should only go up to 7.8. However, it was warm enough, tons of algae, and I-- You know, 83 doesn't seem that warm, except it's a lake, and it's a big surface area, so it can get a lot of, like, surface heat, and I think that's probably what was going on.
So anyway, um, I just wanted to share that, 0.0 LSI on all four of these natural bodies of water. So take my notebook away.
[00:15:29] Takeaways
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Eric Knight: What does that mean for you? What can we learn from this? Without human intervention, that backyard pool would be natural water within days, maybe weeks Without filtration, circulation, and chemistry, without you brushing, netting, cleaning things out, getting stuff out of that water, that water will revert to its natural state.
And natural water is not crystal clear and blue. Natural water looks like a pond. It looks like a lake. So when you have a green pool loaded with algae, that's just nature reclaiming that water. We cover this a lot in the Watershape chemistry class that I developed, that eight-hour class, uh, service 2211.
There's this whole section on this explaining what eutrophication is and why it matters so much to stay ahead on your chemistry, your circulation, and your filtration. Because that is water quality, man-made. Water balance, which we just saw here, perfectly balanced in four completely different ways, is natural. That's driven by physics.
So physics always finds level, kind of like if you had a plumbing system and you pour water in, assuming all valves are open, it will always equalize and level. No different here. Physics will always find equilibrium. Henry's Law with the gases in the water and the air, and then LSI in this case.
It always seems to find equilibrium. So take that lesson as you will. You don't have to pay attention to LSI if you don't want to, but nature's going to. So it's going to balance itself. The question is, are you happy with how it gets there? I hope you take some solace in knowing that you're not alone if you're struggling with this, because natural water is going to do what natural water does.
And so you're not crazy if the pH rises every week. It's supposed to. It's physics. You need to understand what these physics are so that you can use them to your advantage instead of fighting them every single week, and then you get frustrated every seven days of trying to beat this water to bend to your will.
Good luck with that. Because it's pretty expensive to try to beat physics, but you know, you can try. Anyway, this is episode 199, Water in Its Natural State. The next episode will be episode 200.
I'm excited about that. And again, if you have questions or topics or any comments that you really just want Rudy and I to discuss in, uh, probably episode 201, I don't know, um, send it to ruleyourpool@gmail.com. Thank you all so much for listening. Have a great week.