Eric and Jarred are honored to have Olympic swimming champion and the voice of Olympic swimming, Rowdy Gaines. We talk swimming, water and air quality, Step Into Swim, and pointless pool trivia at the end.
00:00 - Introduction
02:06 - Rowdy Gaines, from swimming to broadcasting
04:56 - The evolution of competitive swimming
16:18 - 2024 Olympic Trials
22:37 - Water and air quality in pools
28:43 - Step Into Swim foundation
35:41 - Game: Unqualified Answers
45:57 - Closing
[00:00:00] Eric Knight: Welcome back to the rule, your pool podcast. I know I sound differently because as you're about to hear in this episode, The microphone and mainly Microsoft teams failed. And there was some latency issues. I wish we could have done this interview on the software that we wanted to use. Normally we can. But as you can tell, I'm just speaking into my laptop right now, which is not normal.
[00:00:23] I have ordered a new microphone. The one during this episode failed. And I'm so sorry. It crunches out during some important parts of the interview. And that's a real bummer, cause I can't go back and do that again. But we had a great interview with our guest today. And with that. take it away.
[00:00:40] Welcome back everybody to the Rule Your Pool podcast. I'm your host Eric Knight with Orenda and HASA. And today is another very special guest. And we talk about pool chemistry quite a bit. We may touch on it today, but today we are actually going to talk about the sport of swimming. Something near and dear to my heart that shaped the direction of my life. And it all came down to a decision that I made in 2004 when our special guest today was commentating on an event called the Olympics in Athens.
[00:01:06] And that moment was what got me interested in the sport of swimming. And had that not happened, I would not be here today. It completely changed my life. And we are so honored to have not only our co host, Jarred,
[00:01:19] Jarred Morgan: Thank you. Thank you. I'm glad to be here. And I just wanted to jump in real quick to let everybody know that Eric was not talking about me being a special guest. Even though I'm not here very often, we really do have a special guest and it's awesome to have him on this episode.
[00:01:32] Eric Knight: We do. We've got the voice of Olympic swimming, or as I call you, the John Madden of swimming Rowdy Gaines. Thank you for being on the Rule Your Pool podcast.
[00:01:42] Rowdy Gaines: Thank you, Eric. Thank you, Jarred.
[00:02:06] Eric Knight: We're honored to have you on here. And I think Most people on here, even if they don't really know swimming, if they ever have watched the Olympics, it's your voice that they're hearing. You, and I think it's Dan Hicks. Is that correct?
[00:02:16] Rowdy Gaines: Yep. Dan and I are getting ready to call our eighth games together. So it's pretty cool.
[00:02:21] Eric Knight: Eighth games. So what was your first? 96?
[00:02:24] Rowdy Gaines: 96. Yeah. My first was 92 in Barcelona. Uh, but I did the triple cast back then. You're too young to remember. But it was sort of a ahead of its time cable part, of pay per view part of the Olympics. I did that. And then over the air NBC, I started in 96 with Dan.
[00:02:42] Eric Knight: Wow. That's the first one I remember with Gary Hall and it was, it was in Atlanta and there was a Jeremy Linn was the breaststroker. I remember that.
[00:02:51] Rowdy Gaines: Yeah. Won gold.
[00:02:53] Eric Knight: Yeah, just amazing history and legacy of swimming. And in part one of this episode, because we do want to get into something relevant to the audience as well. Um, I want a little bit about your background and then, how you got through the sport and then got into broadcasting.
[00:03:09] Rowdy Gaines: Well, Eric, I didn't start swimming until I was 17.
[00:03:12] Eric Knight: Me too!
[00:03:12] Rowdy Gaines: So I was a junior high school. Yeah.
[00:03:14] Eric Knight: That's awesome.
[00:03:15] Rowdy Gaines: Great. Yeah. When I went out from my high school swim team and I grew up around water all my life, I'm from Winter Haven, Florida. Which is like right in the middle of the state, grew up on a lake. My parents water skied for a place called Cypress Garden.
[00:03:27] So water is part of my DNA and it always has been. But I didn't start swimming competitively until high school. So, you know, I just fell in love with it. I fell in love with the competition part and trying to improve. I had tried out for five other sports before swimming and got cut in all of them.
[00:03:45] And so swimming was just next in line. And then I didn't get cut and ended up making the team, and going to Auburn a year later, and had the great fortune of making the team in 80, didn't get to go because of a boycott.
[00:04:01] Eric Knight: You're talking about making the Olympic team. You made the Olympic team in 1980.
[00:04:05] Rowdy Gaines: Yes. Made the team.
[00:04:06] Jarred Morgan: So how far, how far removed were you from your starting swimming at 17 to going or making the Olympic team?
[00:04:14] Rowdy Gaines: Good question, Jarred. So it's funny. I broke my first world record, uh, two and a half years after I started. I started in February of 76.
[00:04:23] Jarred Morgan: The typical trajectory of how these things work.
[00:04:27] Eric Knight: That is so offensively gifted. I'm like audience listening. You don't understand how hard that is. Especially like, I think it may have gotten more difficult nowadays, but not that much more difficult. Like. Oh, my God, two and a half years to learn something.
[00:04:42] Rowdy Gaines: When I first started, I didn't have, I didn't own a pair of goggles and swam like a six year old kept running into the lane line back and forth. And so, yeah, it was a little bit clumsy to get started for sure, but it accelerated from there.
[00:04:56] Eric Knight: How has the sport evolved in your lifetime?
[00:04:59] Rowdy Gaines: Well, there are two ways really. From in the water, as you know, and you were part of that, um, successfully, is the underwater dolphin kick. So It's really become the fifth stroke. We didn't have that. If you look up old races of me swimming. I mean, I pop up at the flags, if that, every single turn. And so there was no underwater dolphin kick.
[00:05:21] So that's transformed the sport certainly to an amazing height. It's, it's the fifth stroke, as I said. And then the flip side of that is money. Money has allowed athletes to stay in the sport. I retired in 1981, the year after, you know, my senior year. Because that's what everybody did. Mark Spitz was 20, 21. John Naber was 20. I mean, you just retire after you finish college because there was no money in the sport.
[00:05:48] So that has allowed athletes to stay in the sport longer. Which is good. It's a good thing. I worked as a night clerk in a hotel for two years before the Olympics. So it was, it was a little bit of a different animal back then for sure.
[00:06:02] Eric Knight: I would say there's a third thing that you didn't mention that has transformed it, at least in my time in the sport. And that's the proliferation of video.
[00:06:11] And when flo swimming came out, when flo swimming came out in 07 and 08, I had never seen what an 18 second 50 free looked like. And you could read it on results. I had no concept of what an 18 second 50 free looked like. YouTube was just getting started. And now these athletes are throwing down times that are what I would have considered impossible even when I was in college, I'm sure you wouldn't have even conceptualized a 17 in the 50 free in the 80s.
[00:06:38] I mean, could you have possibly conceptualized a 17? Exactly. And so these athletes are, my theory, they're growing up from a younger age surrounded by biomechanics studies and underwater video and things that their coaches can watch with them. And they can really dial in the sport to the level that football players and golfers have.
[00:06:59] It's really an amazing evolution that we're seeing times from, and not just times from the top, you know, phenom athletes like Caeleb or Michael or Katie. We're seeing times from the seventh and eighth and ninth place finishers that are insane. Is that something that you think that's valid?
[00:07:17] Rowdy Gaines: Absolutely. A hundred percent accurate. The science of swimming has dramatically changed. There was no science. I mean, Eric, dude, we would go to practice and we would all be together. My coach Richard Quick would say, okay, we're going, you know, eight two hundreds on three minutes on the top. Everybody ready go. And you know, the breaststrokers, the sprinters, the distance, we'd all do the same thing. And now it's much more specialized.
[00:07:45] There was no science. There was no lactate testing. There was none of that. Certainly no video. But yeah, it's, it's, uh, science has transformed the sport into something that is much more specific to your talents too. I think that's also changed.
[00:08:03] Which makes what Michael did so amazing. Because he was so versatile and he did so many different events. Michael Phelps I'm talking about. That it's still pretty wild.
[00:08:13] Jarred Morgan: I think I can make my comment here and I don't think it was required. But just for the listening audience here, I am a fish out of water in this podcast because I am not a swimmer. , my physique does not support me swimming whatsoever.
[00:08:26] Eric Knight: Don't be so hard on yourself. I saw you swim and Swim Across America.
[00:08:30] Jarred Morgan: And I almost died because of it.
[00:08:32] Eric Knight: That's true, but that's why I told you you had to have the floaty. And I got you a pair of goggles that were not children's goggles. It was hilarious.
[00:08:39] Jarred Morgan: That's true. And that was my last time I probably actually swam like that. Um, it was for sure because I almost died and I didn't, I did not enjoy it whatsoever. But it was a challenge.
[00:08:50] Eric Knight: It was so good. Rowdy, very challenging. Rowdy. It was so good. It was so good.
[00:08:54] Rowdy Gaines: I wish I would've seen that.
[00:08:56] Jarred Morgan: Yeah, man. I showed up with just my regular swim trunks and it's an open water swim and I don't even know how it was a mile or half a mile or something. And Eric's like, what are you doing? I'm like. What do you mean? I'm going to swim. He's like,
[00:09:07] Rowdy Gaines: you did have goggles though, right?
[00:09:09] Eric Knight: No, well, he did. He had his son's goggles and his son is eight years old.
[00:09:12] Jarred Morgan: Yeah. My son's, my son likes swimming. He loves it, as a matter of fact, he is a fish in water. And it's funny, we were sitting at the house the other day watching TV and you were on there for the Olympic Trials. And I was like, Hey, I know that guy.
[00:09:26] And he was like, oh, yeah, who's that? And so we kind of had a little history lesson here. So that was pretty entertaining. I enjoyed that. I think he did too.
[00:09:33] Um, but I am your layman's person here when it comes to the sport of swimming. And what you referenced earlier of, hey, the money has really transcended the sport and allowed these athletes to compete longer and, you know, make a living and do well.
[00:09:50] And I think I compare it to almost like the Tiger Woods effect. Where Michael Phelps had that effect, or at least that's my perception of the sport. where That's when I really dove in. And it was like, man, this is awesome. This guy is just absolutely crushing the competition.
[00:10:03] And it just changed the narrative for me when it came to summer Olympics. Right. And it's something that my family, we love getting around the TV, watching it. We enjoy watching the Olympics when they come about. So this is awesome.
[00:10:17] Rowdy Gaines: Jarred, that's actually good that you're here then, because if Eric and I get into the weeds too much. You need to like, say, time out and say, okay, guys, let's get back on to where our audience knows what you're talking about.
[00:10:30] Jarred Morgan: Yeah, we're not talking split times and kickflips, and dolphin kicks.
[00:10:33] Eric Knight: Not yet. Those are not yet.
[00:10:36] Rowdy Gaines: Let's not go down that road. That's wrong audience to do that.
[00:10:39] Eric Knight: Yeah. Well you bring something up here and then I want to backtrack a little bit. Jarred, you're absolutely right. I look at swimming this way, Rowdy. I want your opinion on it because your opinion carries a lot of weight in the sport. You've been around, I mean, you're kind of the face of the sport outside of Michael.
[00:10:55] I look at swimming in three eras. Pre-Phelps, Phelps, and now post-Phelps. I was privileged enough to swim in the Phelps era. And I remember racing next to him in like the prelims of the Ultraswim or something and I was like, Oh my God, I beat him to the 50 and then I saw his feet off the wall.
[00:11:13] Meaning he dolphin kicked a body length ahead of me off the wall. Just decided to start racing. And, uh, it was a very cool thing to watch the best. Guys like Eric Shanteau and Mark Gangloff and Brendan Hansen. Watching these guys at these pro swim series events that had been in the game for a long time. My old roommate, Davis Tarwater. Perfect example.
[00:11:34] These guys just went about their business and they made it look so effortless. And now we're looking at a whole crop of people that I don't know pretty much anyone's names, and they're going faster times than the powerhouses of the Phelps era. So I think there's been a shift in the capabilities of the athletics component of it.
[00:11:53] There's got to be more dry land. There's got to be strength and conditioning that was different than what we had when we were in college. And I want your take on that. Do you think that that's a fair segmentation of the evolution of our sport?
[00:12:04] Rowdy Gaines: I don't know, Eric. I think from a generation standpoint, you have to look from generation to generation and know that each generation is going to be bigger, stronger, faster. I don't think they're doing anything differently than than what you did 20 years ago. I think what's happened is, is you use an example of Lawrence Taylor in football. Lawrence Taylor is perhaps the greatest defensive player in history.
[00:12:32] Eric Knight: Right.
[00:12:32] Rowdy Gaines: He's been voted that right. New York Giants, Superbowl champ, everything, et cetera, et cetera. So I've talked to some current pro players. And they say he wouldn't even make an NFL football team now. It's just because it's a different human body that is out there now than it was 40 years ago.
[00:12:51] And certainly 80 years ago. And you only have to look at the clock. And I think, obviously, what you talked about, the science of it, the stroke techniques have gotten better, the video analysis, diet, et cetera, et cetera. But it's also the human body, I think, has changed a lot.
[00:13:07] And, you know, in 20 years, we're going to see kids go 16 in a 50 freestyle, you know,
[00:13:14] Jarred Morgan: to my perspective on that. Is it more specialized? Because I just take my realm of what I live in and my kids. I have three kids from 8 to 13. But when starting about now with my youngest 8 years old, they're starting competitive baseball, football, whatever you want to call it, swimming. And it starts now and you pretty much have to pick a specialized lane of what path you want to follow. Now moving forward because you can't just say i'm going to do this for four years and then devote all my time to baseball, and then decide you're going to go swimming.
[00:13:46] I guess you could, but you're, you're at a severe disadvantage when you do that. My perspective is that's why these things have changed. Cause when I grew up, I played all the sports. I played everything. There wasn't a competitive thing. So that's my easy.
[00:14:00] Rowdy Gaines: To some degree, I think Jarred, to some degree, yes. It has become much more specialized and certainly at a younger age but I was like you, Jarred. Man I did every sport as a kid. but I, There's still a stat that's very important to remember in swimming. Eric knows this and I'm not getting into the weeds, I promise. So audience, bear with me here for 30 seconds.
[00:14:22] In swimming, you can break records as a child, right? You can break an 11-12 age group record. You can be the fastest 13-14 year old in the country, and you can break a national record as a 10 and under. You know, there are 10 and under national records. There's never been a 10 and under national record holder in our sport ever make the Olympic team.
[00:14:42] So the point is it doesn't matter how good you are at 10 years old. It has no bearing on how good you are going to be later on in your life. So for me, I still take the approach you need to be a well rounded, athlete. Forget athletics for a second, but be well rounded as a kid.
[00:14:58] And then, yeah, there's a certain stage that you need to start get serious at it, but it's not 10 years old.
[00:15:03] Jarred Morgan: I hear your point, because your success is not predetermined at 10. So that's a good just mantra to live by.
[00:15:10] Eric Knight: Yeah, for sure.
[00:15:11] Rowdy Gaines: But that's just me. I don't know what I'm talking about. I'm just saying, you know, I'm just some dumb ex jock, so what do I know?
[00:15:18] Jarred Morgan: You have medals on the wall that we don't. So I'm going to lean towards your opinion here over mine.
[00:15:23] Eric Knight: You know, we make everything up on this podcast anyway. You sure you don't want to be a co host?
[00:15:29] Rowdy Gaines: I will say, Eric, that I am not as knowledgeable about swimming as many, many other swimmers. But nobody can deny my passion. That's what I think I bring. And that's one reason why I'm doing my ninth Olympic games is because I love swimming. Nobody loves swimming more than I do. And I bring that to the audience that doesn't know anything about swimming.
[00:15:52] Eric Knight: That's the key
[00:15:52] Rowdy Gaines: credit. You know, people are big critics about, I don't get into the weeds of, you know, stroke rates and tempo and split.
[00:16:00] Eric Knight: That's not your role.
[00:16:02] Rowdy Gaines: Dude, especially at the Olympics. Nobody cares about that. They don't even know what starting blocks. They don't even know what they're called. I was just on a podcast earlier and they go, what's that platform that the swimmers jump off of?
[00:16:14] I mean, .That, there you go.
[00:16:17] Eric Knight: You're going to love the game at the end of this episode..
[00:16:21] Rowdy Gaines: Yeah. So this is. You know, I, it's not that I need to dumb it down, but I need to exude joy and the, and the love of the sport because I want people, do
[00:16:29] Jarred Morgan: you need me to understand it so that I continue watching. And I prefer, your easy to understand, let's just get into the swimming aspect of this instead of the weeds. 'cause that's how I'm going to stay engaged.
[00:16:40] Rowdy Gaines: Absolutely.
[00:16:41] Eric Knight: The best that's ever done it. So thanks for that. 'cause it got me into the sport and it got a lot of other people into the sport. Now.
[00:16:47] Rowdy Gaines: Thank you.
[00:16:48] Eric Knight: Let's move on. We just went through Olympic Trials. First of all, how did you like the venue? First time swimming's ever been in a football stadium at the Indianapolis Colts stadium. What'd you think?
[00:16:57] Rowdy Gaines: Uh, it was a magical experience. It really was. And I've been to, this was my, uh,
[00:17:06] Eric Knight: I mean, you've been to a lot of trials.
[00:17:09] Rowdy Gaines: Yeah, 12th and obviously never seen anything like And even Omaha in a basketball arena didn't compare to this. This was a swimming pool in an NFL football stadium. That's as simple as I could put it. And as magical as it looked on TV, it was even cooler in person, live. And I think your audience would really love the background of it all. We had a lot of our donors to Step Into Swim come, and , a lot of pool people.
[00:17:37] I mean, these are the industry people. And we took them on tours behind the scenes to see how it was all put together. It was really pretty fascinating how they put this pool in a football stadium right on the top of the football field. So yeah, it was a great moment for our sport.
[00:17:53] Eric Knight: Yeah, it was that I wasn't able to be there. Unfortunately, I really wish I could have been there. But so many of our friends, mutual friends as well, Rob and several others were there. And, uh, wish I could have been there, but I did attend three Olympic trials in Omaha, 08, 2012, and 2016. So I've seen a very cool environment. It's really hard to understate just how breathtaking it is when you walk on that deck for the first time.
[00:18:18] And it's unlike any other experience I've had. And I just can't even imagine what it was like to be in Lucas Oil Stadium. So what were your takeaways from trials? What stood out? What surprised you? And what disappointed you?
[00:18:30] Rowdy Gaines: What I wanted to try to get across to people that were watching an Olympic trials for the first time is how much stress these kids are under. Our country is so good in swimming, Eric, as you know.
[00:18:44] We have been number one in the world of swimming for 68 straight years. Think about that for a second, name another sport or country that has been that dominant for 68 years. You can't. Now, the Australians will say that they've won two of those 68 years, because they won the gold medal count at two world championships. Never at the Olympics. But two, we do a two out of three system. We do gold medals, total medals, and we do a point system, which is what the world aquatics does.
[00:19:15] They award the best country at a world championships based on points you score. And we've won at least two out of three of those 66 out of 68 years. Um, so anyway. I digress from the original question, but for me, the biggest surprise was how people embraced it, you know, instead of, um, folding under that.
[00:19:37] I think most swimmers embrace the energy that the crowd provided. You had 20,000-25,000 people every night. And I think for me, I would have folded in that environment. I just can't imagine, but I think for the most part that kids embraced it and that, and that was a surprise.
[00:19:54] I think the biggest disappointment was some that, you know, I wish would have been there that didn't. Because you build these relationships with some of these kids, like Lydia Jacoby, you know, I mean, she won the gold from Alaska four years ago or three years ago and didn't make the team, she got third.
[00:20:10] The disappointment of a Jack Aikens who, you know, nobody knows who Jack Aikens is, but
[00:20:16] Eric Knight: Well, it's funny you say that. Our Southeastern regional manager, Shaun's son is good friends with him. And he was texting me during trials, hoping he would make that team. I don't know the kid either, but I mean, the guy swam out of his mind. And that's the nature, the heartbreaking nature of the sport.
[00:20:31] Rowdy Gaines: Totally. And so that for me, I was so disappointed for him. You know, I mean, it was, it's, it's heartbreaking because he's third, they take two swimmers. He was third in two events, Jarred, by I think it was 19 one hundredths of a second. He missed one by three one hundredths and another by 16.
[00:20:49] Jarred Morgan: So it was, I don't think I didn't even comprehend the time difference on a clock there.
[00:20:54] Rowdy Gaines: The coolest thing is you're an Olympian forever and ever, and he didn't have that moment. So now he has to wait four more years. It's not like a Superbowl. My favorite team, Chicago Cubs doesn't make the world series. I get, they get to try again next year. Now this poor kid has to wait four years to have that opportunity again.
[00:21:12] Eric Knight: Well he won't be waiting if he's going for it. He's training now. He's probably taking a few weeks off, but he'll probably be training and you know, when I was on team elite, I had a lot of people that missed teams within eight spots that had finaled in trials and never made it. I mean, I think Madison, I think Nick Brunelli, I think Davis Tarwater, he finally did make in 2012, but you know, the heartbreak, the pressure that's on them.
[00:21:36] I felt it.. When I went to trials, I never expected to make the Olympic team. I was there to swim as fast as I could. And I did. But I didn't have the pressure and therefore I was able to swim. And I was so happy when I hung up the goggles, I had done everything I wanted to do in the sport. Everything was good.
[00:21:50] And so many people leave the bitter taste in their mouth, and I feel for those people because I've walked that path and, um, it's just such a highly charged emotional meet that you can't capture with television. You have to be in the warm up pool. You have to see the tears. You have to see that the hugs with the coaches and all that stuff.
[00:22:09] And it's for me watching on TV it was so different watching it and knowing it was not going to be there on day five of eight because I was racing in the 50 or something like that. Um, but I, I just thought it was an amazing thing. And the speed, Oh my God, are these people fast?
[00:22:26] Five or six guys going 47 in the a hundred free is just sick. That's so fast.
[00:22:33] Rowdy Gaines: We're getting into the weeds, people don't know 47. Let's move on, Eric.
[00:22:37] Eric Knight: Okay. Let's move on. Thank you for bringing us back. So, uh, we're going to talk about the importance of water quality and air quality to the health and welfare of swimmers. I mean, we have lived our lives in and around pools and so many of these athletes do, and not just the 1 percent of the 1 percent that makes trials, but all recreational swimmers, aquarobics, Learn to swim kids, which we'll talk about with your foundation.
[00:23:01] Talk about water quality and why is that so important to the people that depend on it?
[00:23:06] Rowdy Gaines: I, I think for obvious reasons, air quality, uh, is a lot more critical than water quality, to be honest with you. I can swim in polluted water. It's not going to change how fast I go, right? Except that air that I'm breathing from that polluted water, right?
[00:23:22] So if the air quality isn't good, you're going to be in major trouble. And we've been in meets, Eric, before where the air quality is not good and it has affected performances by far a lot more than the pool being two degrees colder than it needs to be. You know, I mean, it's a critical situation and I think fortunately we've with people like you and your team, I think people are starting to figure out how important air quality is.
[00:23:49] But I still go into pools and I'm like, Oh my God, I really, I don't even have asthma or any you know, breathing problems like that. But I was having a hard time. And I'm thinking, gosh, I'm having a hard time. Can you imagine what people that suffer through something like that must be feeling?
[00:24:07] So my wife is one, you know, she has asthma and she'll go into a swimming pool facility and have a hard time breathing. And so you can imagine a kid getting up on the blocks, trying to perform at his best or her best and not being able to have. And it's not, it's, I don't think it's rocket science. But what do I know?
[00:24:26] Eric Knight: It is an engineering challenge and that's a large part of what I do outside of Orenda chemistry. It is completely possible. And if those of you listening have kids or you go to an indoor pool that struggles with air quality, there is an answer, reach out to me, that can be resolved. It can just be very expensive to do it. It could require a modification to the HVAC system. It can require supplementing your chlorine.
[00:24:51] And where we come in on this, we try to avoid talking about products. The main thing that we do that makes a noticeable impact. And I knew this as a swimmer long before I met Orenda, was our enzyme.
[00:25:01] When they treated the back warmup pool at Charlotte Ultra Swim, you know, you know what I'm talking about that four lane pool at Charlotte Ultra Swim, 90,000 gallons, 850 swimmers over five days. By the end of it, you couldn't see the tile line three feet below your face. And when they treat that with enzymes, that water on the last day that meet was better than the 50 meter pool with 1 million gallons in it, eight people racing at a time. It was astounding. And that was before I worked for Orenda.
[00:25:26] That's actually what got my attention to say, Oh, Oh, so you could fix this? I want to work with this company. Whatever that did was insanely good.
[00:25:35] Even some events, I'm not going to see what they are. Some events that you commentate on, I'm watching online and the live stream or whatever, thinking that water is so cloudy. I can't see across it. I can't see lanes 7 and 8 underwater that shouldn't happen. We can deliver world class water quality. It can be done. And Jarred, um, Just because I feel bad you haven't said anything. Do you have anything to add?
[00:25:56] Jarred Morgan: I was actually flipping through my phone to try to find a picture that Harold actually took many years ago when we had my son's birthday party at a natatorium and there is nothing worse than when you walk in there. Number one, the smell just hits you in the face, and it's overwhelming. Which, okay, people tolerate. They, that's just, I guess, it doesn't have to be part of it, but that's usually what we do, but then after the party, everything's swimming, and there's a picture of him where he's just, his whole face is red, his eyes are red, his mucous membranes are just sore, and like, he's, he's in pain, it looks like, because he is. That shouldn't be the case, and there's just a lot of things that's Unfortunate for being in the water and because the kids love it.
[00:26:40] My kids love being in the water and it's enjoyable. So let's try to make it as enjoyable as we possibly can. And that's ultimately what all of our goal is here is let's enjoy the water,
[00:26:49] Eric Knight: You know, one of the best pool designers in the world that I know of, you probably know him, uh, Steve Crocker from Water Technology, he used to hold the world record in the 50 free. And.
[00:27:02] Steve Crocker said that the air quality problem for swimmers is like the concussion problem for football. It's getting to a point where parents don't want their kids exposed to that long term, just like they don't want their kids exposed to the concussion risk long term in football. And it could be a big problem for our sport.
[00:27:20] And part of what we do here on this podcast, while we don't talk about air quality much, because most of our audience is in the residential space, we talk a lot about water quality. About keeping water safe, clean, clear, and all that other stuff. And if you do have better water quality, the air is going to be better.
[00:27:35] Is it going to be fixed completely? Maybe not. Because there's air physics involved and HVAC considerations, but I think we need to get to a point in our industry in general, where we no longer tolerate designing facilities that don't factor in the air quality problem. It should be a standard of care, and we're not quite there yet.
[00:27:55] Rowdy Gaines: I would assume, again, I don't know what I'm talking about with this, but if the water quality is good, then I'm assuming that the air quality would follow. I know there's certain things that you still have to do, but it all starts with water quality. And you're right, and I don't care if it is residential or not. I mean, you want that water quality to be good in a residential situation as well. We had a screened in porch in our pool, you know, in Florida.
[00:28:21] And, uh, you know, that would affect the air quality of the pool. Our chlorine wasn't right. Even in a, in an open air type situation, that screened in porch still caused poor air quality,
[00:28:32] Eric Knight: Well, even outside of air quality. Who wants to jump into a greasy, cloudy pool? That doesn't look refreshing. I want to jump into clear, sparkling, clean water.
[00:28:43] Eric Knight: There's a huge difference. So let's move on from this and let's get into your foundation. Step Into Swim. Tell us about that because we have a growing audience here. Perhaps there are people here that want to get behind what you're doing. Because I think it's awesome. Uh, tell us about Step Into Swim.
[00:28:57] Rowdy Gaines: Thanks, Eric. I have been with the Pool and Hot Tub Alliance for the last three and a half years and their spiritual mission or their philanthropic mission is called Step Into Swim. So basically it's a foundation part of PHTA in which we raised money through primarily this industry through primarily your audience. And we take that money 100 percent of it and we funnel it right back out to swimming lesson providers around the country to teach kids how to swim.
[00:29:28] Because drowning, as you know, is a real problem in our country. Part of what we try to do is educate people. And it's the number one cause of death in children ages one to four. It's a number two cause of children between 5 and 14. So it is a problem, but we found the cure. I mean, it's just that simple. We found the cure and the cure is swim lessons. Obviously barriers and all of that, very important.
[00:29:52] But what we try to do is if a child falls in the water, we're not trying to create a Michael Phelps. All I want that kid to do is they fall in the water, they can turn over and float on their back. Because a kid is usually missing from their parent from from about 30 seconds to two minutes. So it's not long, but a child can drown in as little as 30 seconds.
[00:30:12] So it's like that. And most drownings happen in front of adults because they're not paying attention. It breaks my heart when I read or hear about a child drowning. And I get a Google alert when a child drowns. And I get four or five a day because I constantly want to be reminded. Now, I will say when I first started talking about this to this industry that's listening, They didn't want to hear anything about it
[00:30:37] Eric Knight: Really?
[00:30:37] Rowdy Gaines: Drowning.
[00:30:38] Ooh, no, no, that's not good for business. No, thank you. See you later. Bye bye.
[00:30:42] But I think as time has gone on, they've understood that, this is something that we need to do. We need to be good stewards of our community. We need to be able to help the next generation because forget about the fact that it's the right thing to do.
[00:30:55] Dude, it's not good for business. Drowning is not good for your business, right? Because it not only affects that family, it can affect an entire community. I know families that have had children drown that they just shut their pool down. They go, we're done. Absolutely drain it, whatever it is, you know, right.
[00:31:13] Because I don't know about you guys. You talked a little bit about it, Jarred, but the greatest memories I have as a child, as a father, and as a grandfather now is around water.
[00:31:28] Jarred Morgan: We have a pool in my backyard and we, it's summertime, we're using the swimming pool all the time. It's a place of gathering, we enjoy it. The kids love being in the water. And to your point, you know, for those of you that don't know, Rowdy's here talking the talk, but he also walks the walk.
[00:31:44] Eric and I see him at trade shows. He's on the show floor. He's talking to people constantly bringing awareness to something that he obviously believes in, we believe in. Um, and it's a great value that we all need to make sure we instill into the children. My children went through swim lessons, the infant swim rescue where it's sometimes it's painful to watch where you throw
[00:32:03]
[00:32:04] Rowdy Gaines: Six weeks
[00:32:05] Jarred Morgan: kid in the water They're going to drown, because they're flailing they're doing their thing and it's it's a lot of anxiety. But you know what? The end result is I'm comfortable, or I was comfortable that if we were around water, which we were all the time, I'm in the business. If they fell in, they could turn over on their back, like you're saying, and they could get to the edge of the pool. And that's it.
[00:32:26] Rowdy Gaines: That's all you want. That's all you want. So we, so the industry really has done a great job in supporting us. The first year, I think I raised. Not me, it's just not me. It's a team. we raised about 300,000. And this year, six months in, we're already over a million.
[00:32:43] So, yeah, so we, we think we're going to get up to about a million and a half, 2 million dollars. And the cool thing, one last thing on this is our board at PHTA matches dollar for dollar what we raise at Step Into Swim. So that million dollars is really 2 million dollars right now. So we're going to be able to help save a lot of lives. That's for sure.
[00:33:01] Eric Knight: We've seen you at the big heritage concerts at two of the shows. And boy, they raise money when we're about to watch Lynyrd Skynyrd play. And, uh, it's really cool. You and Rob Butcher, a mutual friend of ours who has Swim Across America,
[00:33:14] Rowdy Gaines: Swim Across America, who I'm an ambassador of, I've been involved with them for 40 years, dude. I started with them when it was swim across the sound in 1986. So I love Swim Across America. I love what Rob Butcher has been able to do with that. And, uh, and I don't really care if it's Step Into Swim. It could be whatever water safety initiative you have in your area, but get involved with helping.
[00:33:36] Eric Knight: Cullen was with Make-a-Splash for a long time with USA Swimming. I know you were involved in that.
[00:33:41] Rowdy Gaines: Absolutely, I still am. I love the USA Swimming Foundation. I'm on the board of Zach Foundation. I'm on the board of Asphalt Green, which has their big swim that helps bring in kids for swim lessons. I believe in what we're doing with Step Into Swim, but the most important thing I want to do is save lives. And I don't really care how you do it. But get involved one way or the other.
[00:34:03] Eric Knight: That's an admirable thing because you're going through not just as a swimmer, but now you're paying it forward, so to speak.
[00:34:12] And I contribute to Swim Across America. I race every year. Not that I do well, I don't. I also don't care, but I did lap Jarred. And I think that's important that everybody needs to know. I did lap Jarred and I was doing a mile. He was doing half a mile. It was really fun for me. Not for him. But Jarred, kudos to that.
[00:34:30] But Rob has been on this podcast. He was on episode 61. So listeners. Cool. Cool. Yeah. If you want to go back to episode 61 and hear about swim across America, that's another great charity for cancer research. Um, I, I do want to wrap up here in the interest of your time. Cause I know you're
[00:34:45] Jarred Morgan: On that note, just so our listeners, if somebody wants to contribute to Step Into Swim, how can they do that?
[00:34:50] Eric Knight: Exactly what I was about to ask.
[00:34:51] Rowdy Gaines: Yeah. They're very easy. stepintoswim.org. It just says, get involved and you can make a donation there. You can email me, rgaines@phta.org. And you want to know more about it. And before you start to donate, no problem. If you want to try to help a lesson provider in your community. You can email me, rgaines@phta.org, and I can help you with getting funding to a local, you know, lesson provider in your area, too.
[00:35:21] We have a lot of great support through a lot of huge companies in this industry that have helped us. And I'm not going to go through each one because then I'd be unfair to others, but rest assured there are a lot of people like Heritage that have made a huge impact on what we're doing.
[00:35:39] Eric Knight: That's awesome.
[00:35:40] Jarred Morgan: That's awesome.
[00:35:41] Eric Knight: Um, I wanted to end on a game. And I'm going to ask each of you five questions. Rowdy I'm going to ask you five pool care questions, and I'm going to ask Jarred five competitive swimming questions. And whoever answers more correctly is going to win. You guys up for the challenge?
[00:36:02] Rowdy Gaines: Yeah, but I'm going to lose.
[00:36:04] Eric Knight: I'm going to start with Jarred. I'm going to ask Jarred the questions and whatever he answers, we'll be surprised if he gets any right, but then I'm going to ask you the same question. So, listen to the questions, Rowdy, you probably know all 5 of these swimming ones.
[00:36:15] Rowdy Gaines: No, no, not necessarily, but go ahead.
[00:36:18] Eric Knight: Well, let's see, let's see. Here's the swimming questions for Jarred. Jarred, how far from the wall is a swimmer allowed to dolphin kick underwater before getting disqualified? Meaning, how far can you go before they have to break the surface off each wall?
[00:36:34] Rowdy Gaines: There are a little multiple choice in here maybe ?
[00:36:37] Jarred Morgan: No, no, no, I got this. This is in my wheelhouse. Uh, let's see. I'm going to guess that maybe a pool is 25 meters in length. So, let's just say 14.
[00:36:49] Eric Knight: Well, it's actually...
[00:36:52] Rowdy Gaines: You're pretty close dude. That's pretty actually 14 probably is right. Technically it's 15, but yeah. You're pretty good.
[00:37:01] Jarred Morgan: We live
[00:37:03] in so close, can't hear. Oh yeah, you're, you chopped
[00:37:06] Rowdy Gaines: up.
[00:37:07] Eric Knight: Oh, I chopped up. I'm sorry. Yeah. Uh, can you hear me now? Yeah,
[00:37:10] Rowdy Gaines: yeah.
[00:37:11] Eric Knight: My mic got, I'm going to give it to you even though it's wrong, because you do pretty much have to break the surface there. But legally it's 15 meters, so
[00:37:19] Jarred Morgan: I'll take the win. Thank you.
[00:37:21] Eric Knight: Okay, Jarred, number two. How long is an Olympic sized pool?
[00:37:27] Jarred Morgan: I'm always bad at the perception of an Olympic sized pool because I go to my natatorium or whatever it is. Okay, that, that, that looks kind of small, but maybe.
[00:37:35] Eric Knight: That's why I'm asking because I get customers who call us on the Orenda Helpline. They say, well, it's an Olympic pool. I'm like, really?
[00:37:41] Jarred Morgan: I'm going to go 50 meters.
[00:37:43] Eric Knight: 50 meters, hey! Oh my gosh, you got one. All right.
[00:37:47] Rowdy Gaines: Very good. Very good.
[00:37:49] Eric Knight: A bonus question for Rowdy. Bonus question. According to FINA regulations, how deep must it be, minimum?
[00:37:57] Rowdy Gaines: Oh, you're asking me?
[00:37:58] Eric Knight: As a bonus. Do you know how deep it is according to FINA regulations?
[00:38:01] Rowdy Gaines: I would assume it's got to be two meters.
[00:38:04] Eric Knight: Bingo. Two meters. You got it. All right, number three, Jarred. Which two strokes require touching the wall with both hands simultaneously?
[00:38:16] Jarred Morgan: Oh yeah, this is easy.
[00:38:21] Eric Knight: Look at that face.
[00:38:22] Jarred Morgan: Breaststroke?
[00:38:23] Rowdy Gaines: Yes.
[00:38:24] Jarred Morgan: Yeah. This is one. Yes. Uh, backstroke.
[00:38:31] Eric Knight: Nope. What's the other one, Rowdy?
[00:38:35] Rowdy Gaines: Well, what are the, do you know the other two strokes, Jarred?
[00:38:39] Jarred Morgan: Freestyle.
[00:38:40] Rowdy Gaines: Yeah.
[00:38:42] Jarred Morgan: I'm going to go butterfly.
[00:38:45] Rowdy Gaines: Yeah. So what thing about it? Butterfly, right? Ah,
[00:38:49] Eric Knight: yeah. All right. Multiple choice, which of these events is not a real event?
[00:38:56] 400 individual medley. 200 butterfly, 4x200 medley relay, or the 100 backstroke.
[00:39:06] Jarred Morgan: I know the 100 backstroke is. I'm going to go with your option number three, the 4x200.
[00:39:14] Eric Knight: Ding ding ding, that's correct, you're doing way better than I thought. Thankfully there is no 4x200 medley relay, that would be brutal.
[00:39:20] Jarred Morgan: Just when in doubt everybody, just give it a good guess.
[00:39:23] Eric Knight: Ha ha ha, okay. Last question, how many individual world records does Michael Phelps currently hold today?
[00:39:33] Jarred Morgan: Ugh. World records, not gold medals?
[00:39:37] Eric Knight: Individual world records.
[00:39:39] Jarred Morgan: Oh man, uh, I'm way going to be off on that one. 20.
[00:39:46] Eric Knight: Okay, now, you are way off.
[00:39:48] Rowdy Gaines: You are way off on that one.
[00:39:50] Eric Knight: I'll give you a bonus. There's a difference between an individual world record, meaning it's just you in a lane, or a relay with three teammates, right? So an individual, Rowdy, do you know how many does Michael currently hold individually? Zero.
[00:40:06] Every single world record has been broken. And that is no slouch on Michael because he changed the sport. He was the greatest of all time. I would still consider him the greatest of all time. But that is a testament to what Rowdy and I were blabbing on about earlier of just how incomprehensibly fast this sport has become.
[00:40:22] Rowdy, do you have anything to add on that?
[00:40:24] Rowdy Gaines: Yes, he still has a world record though.
[00:40:26] Eric Knight: He does. He has two world records on relays.
[00:40:29] Rowdy Gaines: Yeah, that's right.
[00:40:30] Eric Knight: The, the 4x100 from Beijing and the 4x200 I think from Beijing. It might've been from London, but I don't remem and maybe not London.
[00:40:38] Jarred Morgan: That's crazy.
[00:40:39] Eric Knight: Yeah. Only has two relay world records.
[00:40:41] Rowdy Gaines: I think the 800 free relay is from Rome.
[00:40:45] Eric Knight: Oh, that's right. 2009.
[00:40:46] Rowdy Gaines: I don't know. That's a good question. But I think he, he does
[00:40:51] Jarred Morgan: When he was in his prime, how many did he have though? Like he was in the Olympics winning gold medals.
[00:40:56] Rowdy Gaines: He had eight. At his prime, he had half of the world records of all swimming events. There were 16 swimming events. He had eight of them.
[00:41:06] Eric Knight: Well, hold on, Rowdy. Are you counting relays in that? Eight total? I thought he had, I thought he had more than that in short course too. No. Okay. I'm wrong.
[00:41:15] Rowdy Gaines: No, he never swam short course meters. Never had a world record in short course meters. Okay. Yeah. So he had
[00:41:21] Eric Knight: Pretty impressive.
[00:41:22] Rowdy Gaines: 200 free, 200 and 400 IM, he had the 100 and 200 butterfly, and three relays.
[00:41:29] Eric Knight: That's incredible. Okay. So you actually did pretty well. You got, uh, three out of five, which is pretty incredible.
[00:41:37] Rowdy Gaines: I thought he got four out of five. He just didn't get the last, you gave him the 14 meter one.
[00:41:42] Eric Knight: He didn't get the, uh, one, two. I'm reading my own show notes, which is something Jarred never has.
[00:41:48] Jarred Morgan: No,
[00:41:49] Eric Knight: he didn't. He did not get the strokes and he did not get the world records. He had three out of five. He said backstroke.
[00:41:55] Rowdy Gaines: He missed the butterfly. Yeah.
[00:41:56] Eric Knight: Okay. Rowdy, based on how Jarred performed, I'm a little concerned for you because these are going to be things that every pool pro should be able to answer. Um, but since you're not in pool care, I don't expect you're going to be able to answer many of them, but
[00:42:08] Rowdy Gaines: I can tell you right now. I'm going to make a big goose egg here, but go ahead,
[00:42:14] Eric Knight: Name three types of chlorine used in swimming pools. Like three chlorine products. How can you buy chlorine? There's multiple different forms of chlorine. Name three of them.
[00:42:25] Rowdy Gaines: Three chlorine, like shock?
[00:42:28] Eric Knight: Yeah, but like, what would be, A lot of people will call something shock, but what types of shock?
[00:42:33] Rowdy Gaines: I have no idea, dude. Bromine?
[00:42:35] Eric Knight: Do you know one?
[00:42:37] Well, bromine is a sanitizer. I might give you that. That's not a chlorine, but close enough. What form could you get chlorine in? Can you get it in dry,
[00:42:44] Rowdy Gaines: Oh, liquid, tablets and, um, granules.
[00:42:48] Eric Knight: There you go. Close enough. Uh, no, we don't need specific products, but yes, you can get it in liquids, you can get it in tablets. You used to be able to get in gas, but not very often anymore.
[00:42:59] Um, name the chemical that protects chlorine from sunlight degradation.
[00:43:04] Rowdy Gaines: Name the typee of chlorine.
[00:43:08] Eric Knight: It's not a type of chlorine. Name the chemical that protects chlorine from sunlight degradation. Would you like some multiple choice?
[00:43:16] Rowdy Gaines: Yeah.
[00:43:17] Eric Knight: Sulfuric acid. Cyanuric acid or sodium bisulfate.
[00:43:25] Rowdy Gaines: You are kidding. It's one of those?
[00:43:27] Eric Knight: Yeah, it's one of those.
[00:43:28] Rowdy Gaines: And you want, you thought that I, dude.
[00:43:31] Eric Knight: In fairness, I didn't think any of you were going to get any of these correct. I thought this was going to be great.
[00:43:35] Rowdy Gaines: You're asking him what size an Olympic pool is and you're asking me sulfuric acid?
[00:43:39] Eric Knight: I thought this would be fun.
[00:43:44] Rowdy Gaines: You got, uh, uh, sulfuric acid. I have no freaking idea.
[00:43:47] Eric Knight: Cyanuric acid.
[00:43:49] Jarred Morgan: Rowdy is clearly not a pool guy.
[00:43:51] Rowdy Gaines: Okay, wait a second. I have never heard of the word cyphernicic acid. Okay,
[00:43:56] Jarred Morgan: There's another word. He used a very technical word here. He should have said stabilizer.
[00:44:01] Eric Knight: Yeah, stabilizer or conditioner. Oh my word, this is kind of fun for me. Okay, name one type of secondary disinfection system. I will give you multiple choice.
[00:44:14] Rowdy Gaines: Okay.
[00:44:14] Eric Knight: Chlorine dioxide. UV light.
[00:44:19] Rowdy Gaines: Oh, it's UV light.
[00:44:20] Eric Knight: Oh, well, you already got it. Okay.
[00:44:21] Jarred Morgan: That was a slam dunk there.
[00:44:23] Rowdy Gaines: But without the multiple choice, I wouldn't have gotten it.
[00:44:25] Eric Knight: Well, here is another multiple choice and this is four out of five. Okay? Which of these chemicals is not used in swimming pools in the United States? Calcium chloride, Sodium hypochlorite, Sodium bicarbonate, and Chlorine dioxide. Rowdy hates me so much for this.
[00:44:47] Rowdy Gaines: I'll say sodium bicarbonate.
[00:44:50] Eric Knight: Close. That's baking soda. That's actually used to raise alkalinity in swimming pools. Jarred, which of those four is not used in pools?
[00:44:57] Jarred Morgan: You do not want to use chlorine dioxide. That'd be, that'd be a little bit of a wreck.
[00:45:03] Eric Knight: Yeah.
[00:45:03] Rowdy Gaines: Why wouldn't you want to use that? I mean, I don't even know what it is.
[00:45:06] Eric Knight: It would oxidize your skin. They use it in wastewater treatment. They use it in drinking water treatment sometimes and they, they degas it and I'm learning about that right now.
[00:45:15] Jarred Morgan: It's a wicked oxidizer.
[00:45:17] Eric Knight: Um, the last thing. Can you name one product that Orenda manufactures and sells? Because we never talk about our products on here, so let's see if you know any, Oh, he's googling it!
[00:45:34] Rowdy Gaines: All I know is Orenda is an amazing company.
[00:45:39] Eric Knight: What a politician. This is great.
[00:45:41] Rowdy Gaines: Exactly. I'm, I'm playing the politician. And I've always admired the people that work for that company and what they've been able to provide for all their communities around the country and around the world.
[00:45:53] Eric Knight: Wow, what a hero.. Okay.
[00:45:55] Jarred Morgan: Couldn't have said it better myself.
[00:45:57] Eric Knight: Well, Rowdy, it's been an honor to have you on here as fun as that was for me. I had a great time. This is different from what we normally do. Much like what you do in the sport of swimming, you're explaining swimming and bringing that passion of something people don't know what they're looking at. We try to do the same thing with advanced chemistry and distill it so a homeowner can understand it, that a pool pro that may not understand the chemistry of it can actually use it and make a living.
[00:46:19] And that's really the purpose of this podcast. And I appreciate you bringing insight into the sport. Hopefully it gets more people to watch in Paris. And by the way, when do you leave for Paris?
[00:46:28] Rowdy Gaines: The 17th of July.
[00:46:31] Eric Knight: Wow. That's about when this episode is going to come out. So we're recording this.
[00:46:34] Rowdy Gaines: Okay cool. Well let me know I will promote it or put it out there or whatever. Let me know. I'd like to share it. And we'll share it with, through PHTA and, and, and Step Into Swim as well.
[00:46:46] Eric Knight: Well, very cool. Is there anything else you want to address and bring up to our audience and
[00:46:50] Rowdy Gaines: Get Jarred a swimsuit. Get his ass in the water.
[00:46:54] Jarred Morgan: I was so sore the following day after I did that open swim, that I was like, this is probably the one of the best workouts I've had in I can't remember when. I was, I was like, I'm going to do this. I never got around to it, but seriously, it is a workout that
[00:47:09] Rowdy Gaines: it is,
[00:47:09] Jarred Morgan: man. I wish I could do that more often.
[00:47:11] Eric Knight: Well, you can, you own a pool. Well, guys, it has been a pleasure having you. Thank you so much for your time. And go, go help team USA win some medals in Paris. We really look forward to watching and hearing you bring that passion. So. Thank you all.
[00:47:25] Another great guest with Rowdy Gaines. If you have any questions or comments and feedback from this, you know how to reach me. It's podcast@orendatech.com. Jarred, anything you want to add?
[00:47:35] Jarred Morgan: Nope. Remember if you enjoyed this episode and you want to know more information, please follow up with Rowdy at the website. Donate obviously. And, uh, thank you for being on here, Rowdy. We really appreciate your time.
[00:47:47] Yeah.
[00:47:47] Rowdy Gaines: Enzyme water cleaner.
[00:47:49] Eric Knight: Hey, all right, that's got, you got to love the Google machine. Hey, one last thing before we go, um, we are close to breaking a milestone here. We're not going to tell you what the number is unless it happens. But if you do not already subscribe to this podcast, take a moment on your phone, push the subscribe button in the top corner.
[00:48:07] Depending on the app you have, it really help us out. We are trying to get to a milestone of subscribers and we will announce when it happens because we've been saying we're trying to get to 300 listeners, but it's not quite 300. But, uh, if we hit that milestone, we're going to have an episode about it.
[00:48:22] We want to thank all of you listeners for it. Take care, everyone. I'm your host, Eric Knight with Orenda and HASA, and we will see you next time.
[00:48:28] Jarred Morgan: Thank you.