Jimmy Reed (founder of Rock Solid Tile) joins the show to talk about the artistry and mastery of advanced tile work, and talks about what to expect in the C2611 Essential Tile Workshop we're offering at the Watershape University Education Vacation on December 5-6 in Phoenix.
[00:00] - Introducing Jimmy Reed
[07:58] - Weeks of precise prep work before tile goes in
[12:12] - The challenge is the point.
[13:46] - The Art and Science of Tile Work
[15:23] - C2611: Essential Tile Workshop
[18:58] - Closing
175. Tile Mastery (w/ Jimmy Reed)
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Eric Knight: Welcome back everybody to the Rule Your Pool podcast, the New Rule Your Pool podcast. And this is episode 175, and today I've got a very special guest. The first time he's ever been on the show, and he is one of our instructors for the Education Vacation in Phoenix, the first week of December. Specifically, this guest today is going to be teaching our tile workshop, Construction 2611. And it's his first time teaching this full workshop, but it's definitely not his first time instructing people how to do tile.
So today, the founder of Rock Solid Tile out of California, Jimmy Reed, welcome to the Rule Your Pool podcast.
Jimmy Reed: Thank you, Eric. Thank you very much. Happy to be here.
Eric Knight: Alright, let's get into it.
Before we get into the class, Jimmy, how did you get into tile? Just tell us a little bit about your story and how long you've been doing this.
Jimmy Reed: I started in the tile industry when I was about 12 years old, working for a contractor that lived across the street from us in our neighborhood. And uh, that's really when it started. He was a stone and tile contractor. He let me work for him on the weekends and in summers. So that's where I got my introduction into tile installation in the first place. And it just grew from there.
I was the bottom line helper for all these, you know, big, massive dudes. And, I really learned a lot in those beginning years.
Eric Knight: And was this for swimming pools or other applications?
Jimmy Reed: No, it was mostly for interiors. I think that one of our first jobs that I did with him, or a couple of the first jobs, we did a few water lines, but nothing, nothing as intense as the projects or as many as of the, uh, tile pool projects we have these days for sure. But they were mostly, um, interiors and like, uh, kind of high-end, designer driven projects.
Eric Knight: Right on. So you started at 12 years old, which seems based on the length of your beard, probably at least six years ago. That's great. So, so what brought you from just doing tile and masonry to focusing and specializing on swimming pools?
Because what I've seen online. From your Facebook posts and just word of mouth. There's nobody who tiles like Jimmy Reed. How, how did you get to that level and what was your path basically?
Jimmy Reed: Thank you for that. Um.
Eric Knight: No, I made it all up, but let's, no, I'm just kidding.
Jimmy Reed: Well, like the way you think, put it that way.
Eric Knight: All right, there you go.
Jimmy Reed: So it really started in the eighties or so, the mid late eighties. The first pool we got or the, I was, uh, on, on my own as a contractor by that point. Um, and the first pool that we got, it was an unusual feeling, because most of the homes we were working on up until that time, and often afterwards, were big interiors where they would have pretty intense weekly construction meetings with, you know, all the players involved.
And what happens typically in those meetings is there's a lot of finger pointing and a lot of schedule that are talked about that need to be met and so forth. And then when we did this, the first pool that I'm recalling, um. I remember the first weekly meeting while we were on site there, and everyone just kind of walked by and was, were, you know, eyes and jaws dropped and they just kind of let us alone.
I liked that feeling a lot. So, uh, it felt good not to be under, you know, intense scrutiny. And also the competition wasn't, certainly not what is today. But the competition back then was, for pool installations, all tile pools, there was virtually nobody out there doing it out west where we were, or where we are.
Eric Knight: And where are you located now? And where was that? Same place?
Jimmy Reed: I mean, here in California, in Los Angeles. Yeah.
Eric Knight: Gotcha. And you're saying back in the eighties with all those swimming pools, there weren't a lot of other people doing tile pools?
Jimmy Reed: And there weren't really that many pools. I mean, the, the pools that were being built then weren't, like things that we see today. Uh, especially in the industry that we're, you know, this end of the industry that we're in now. Um, there were more mostly just production pools. And if we were able to do a, you know, like a deco waterline, some kind of, you know, beautiful tile and water, that was unusual then for out in Los Angeles. So anything, you know, beyond a six by six turquoise ceramic tile waterline was a little unusual.
Eric Knight: So with these advanced Watershapes, I am learning, it's not just pools. There's features that connect to pools. I've seen backyards that have like a spa that then becomes like a babbling brook going, it's all by design, right? Kind of weaving through the yard and all of these things I've seen, those are tiled. I've seen narrow trenches tiled. I've seen Dave Peterson's house itself has this water feature in the front that you actually walk over to get to the front door. It's beautiful. And that's all tiled. Um, I think it's all now, now, now you got me questioning my memory, but I think it is. Um, it seems to me like to get to the skill level to do that, you have to stop doing a lot of other things to devote enough time and practice to get to the ability to do that.
Jimmy Reed: Of course. Yeah. I mean. The only thing we do is pools. Occasionally, I've said before, we'll do an interior if it's a specific reason for us to either want to do it or us to be asked to do it. Like we're working on a, a steam room right now in a huge house up in Bel Air. We're doing the pool, of course. And the contractor, for some reason, we hit it off and he brought us in to do this one super special giant steam room. So we'll occasionally do something. But all we do, all we focus on is pools, swimming pools, all tile pools, and of course water features. And anything that has to do with water kind of goes with that as well. But we are still, I mean, I'm learning every day. There's, there's no like level that you get to and then it's all of a sudden you're done, you know everything. I've been doing this many years, more than six and a half years, believe it or not.
Eric Knight: What?
Jimmy Reed: And, I never stop learning. Ever.
Eric Knight: That's good. The people that are very intelligent and very well educated, they are also the people that say, the more I learn, the more I realize I don't know.
Jimmy Reed: That's true. Yeah.
Eric Knight: Yeah, it absolutely is. So you say all tile pools. I've only seen one of those with my own eyes in real life and it was wild. I mean, it just shimmered.
I, no, I've actually seen two now 'cause I saw one with Bill Drakeley in Connecticut. Are you saying that you don't do things like, let's say we just need a vanishing edge tiled? Because in Phoenix, Rick Chafey is going to be teaching our Vanishing Edge class on the first day. And I know those are not supposed to be plastered. Those are tiled. Will you ever come in for a job where you're just doing a feature like that in the water line or it does it have to be the whole pool?
Jimmy Reed: Well, no, it doesn't have to be the full pool. Um, I do a lot of work with Rick and it's not always an all tile pool, but especially for a guy like Rick, he designs some pretty intense stuff. So even if it's not an all tile pool, there's usually a lot more than just a water line and an edge detail. And even if it is just an edge and face of a pool detail, it's usually 80 feet long and 10 feet high. So there's some significant work that goes along with, even if it's just a waterline pool. But generally for like production pools. Um, then, you know, it's, we don't really get asked to do smaller jobs that much, and it's really not worth it for us to do it. Or for the client to have us do it. It's just not necessary a lot of times.
[00:07:58] Weeks of precise prep work before tile goes in
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Eric Knight: Right, so we've got concurrently with your class, which is December 5th and 6th in Phoenix. In the next room over, or actually we don't know where the rooms are, but in one of the rooms at the same time, it's going to be our plaster school, C3611. Yours is C2611.
A plaster job usually is done in a day, just a few hours. How long does it take to do an all tile pool?
Jimmy Reed: Well, again, depends on the size, number one, and the amount of detail, you know, intricate details. If it's a rectangle pool, fairly small with square transitions, one, you know, depth elevation, then it's not going to take as long as something that has tons of radiuses, tons of spill edges and, you know, all kinds of features. So it really, there's no way to say how long a pool takes.
Eric Knight: Well, let's start with a easy rectangular spa that's a thousand gallons, just three foot deep bench, just like a standard eight foot by eight foot rectangular spa.
Jimmy Reed: So that could take usually four weeks, four or five weeks, something that small.
Eric Knight: Wow.
Jimmy Reed: the amount of guys that I have available. If you're asking me how many guys are available, where it is. And sometimes if, when we travel, in town, generally, meaning in Los Angeles, we're usually working on projects for pool contractors or, and, or general contractors. And they're usually job sites that have strict timelines that you're able to work. A lot of the times we make deals when we're traveling to work extra hours per day and sometimes seven days a week. So a lot of times we are able to condense that length of time depending on where it is.
Eric Knight: Since plaster goes in in just a few hours comparatively, and yours takes weeks to do. I mean, I've seen tile get laid, but I guess I've never really watched the preparation process. It sounds like there's weeks of preparation to get it to the point where you can adhere the tile. Is that what I'm hearing?
Jimmy Reed: Yeah, I usually, my answer to that usually is 70% of the project is preparation.
Eric Knight: Wow.
Jimmy Reed: Once the sculpting is done, once the finessing, the honing of the surface, then the tile should go up fairly quickly. Pretty easily. because by that time we've, we've already calculated everything, already laid everything out, and already have, at least for me, already imagined what we're going to come up against and what it's going to look like in the end. So by the time we start setting tile, it usually flies pretty well.
Eric Knight: Nice.
Jimmy Reed: Yeah, the preparation and layout is critical.
Eric Knight: One of the questions that I get now that I'm at Watershape University is how on earth can you get a vanishing edge to be perfectly level? And some of these vanishing edges are, they're not just like 10 feet, they're 30, 40, 50 feet. And that's your job. You're the one doing the float work. You're the one doing, I think they call it the brown coat? Please correct me where I'm wrong, I'm not a tiler. But they say that's the tile guy. The tile guy makes that work, or the the tile company. So how do you do that?
Jimmy Reed: It takes work and it takes patience. And it takes the right tools. Um, we always crosscheck our tools, whether we're using, uh, spirit levels or transits and or lasers. Um, regardless of what we're using, mainly we always crosscheck with other tools to make sure we're absolutely perfect all the way around. Yeah, some of these spill edges and the perimeter overflow pools, you're talking about not 30, 40 feet, we're talking about hundreds of feet of perfect infinity edge within a 32nd. There's really no room for error in that. If there is error, it's going to be an area that's flowing with a lot of water with versus other areas that aren't getting enough or anymore.
Eric Knight: Did you just say within a 32nd? Meaning like one 32th of an inch?
Jimmy Reed: Correct. Yeah.
Eric Knight: Well, that's actually a lot more precise than I thought. I was figuring, like an eighth of an inch. But I guess with, well with water flowing, like you would see dry spots, right?
Jimmy Reed: That's right. Exactly.
Eric Knight: Wow.
Jimmy Reed: I mean, I've heard people say, oh, just turn up the pumps. And sometimes that works. But it's more important I think, to get it perfect from the beginning.
[00:12:12] The challenge is the point.
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Eric Knight: What would you say is the hardest detail to tile in a pool that you've done? Because I've seen toe kick details. I've seen vanishing edge. I've seen Lautner edges. What would you say is like, oh God, they got one of these? All right. Yeah, we'll do it, but that's going to be really hard?
Jimmy Reed: Well, nothing ever gets that reaction from me. Just so you know, I love what I do. I absolutely love doing tile and even more so in pools. So those challenges that I'm faced with on a daily basis are what keeps me going.
Eric Knight: I love it.
Jimmy Reed: But the, um, not so much frustration, but as far as difficulty, the vanishing edges, whether it's a Lautner style or a infinity edge, a typical infinity edge, whatever, perimeter edge. That, and also transition details from walls to floors and square versus combined with radius transitions. So those, we really enjoy putting kind of our signature stamp on. And, um, if you have a chance to look at some of the pictures that, uh, you probably will get it, get what I'm talking about. But as far as difficulty, I would say those are the two things. So transitions and, uh, any type of spillage.
Eric Knight: So when I think of a transition, I think of like you have a flat wall going down and then there's a radius to a floor that might not be flat, and then it kind of curves in with a little, you know, a bench that comes down. Now you've got this really weird section of pool. Is that what you're referring to by transitions?
Jimmy Reed: That's exactly what I'm referring to. So making those details in those areas look really cool. I love that.
[00:13:46] The Art and Science of Tile Work
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Eric Knight: Nice. So, uh, let's talk a little bit about the artistry of this. Because I have been learning with all sorts of aspects of pool construction. When you first come into Watershape University and you take Construction 2111, you learn the science of construction. You don't really learn the art of it. The science is geotechnical engineering and soil studies and structural loads and all this stuff, and how to, you know, why you put the rebar where it is, and what the shotcrete needs to be and all that stuff. But it's really the science of it. Tile, the preparation sounds like the science and then the fine tuning is the art. So talk to me a little bit like, are you, you left brain, right brain, what? How do you view your craft? Is what I'm getting at. Is it more of an art or more of a science?
Jimmy Reed: I would say it's, at the end of the day, it's more of an art. But there is a lot of, I wouldn't say science so much, but there's a lot of, um, mathematical technique to it. Let's say the science being just ensuring that each of your layers has bonded properly and so forth, and right mixtures, right calculations in whatever you're using, your adhesives or your mortar beds. But it does require, at least for me, it requires me to use basic mathematics, but have a good understanding of how things lay out. Because that, as I said earlier, part of the preparation, the 70% preparation is the layout. And that takes a lot of, you know, it takes some calculation. I find artistic gratification in figuring those steps out as well. So I guess I would say it's half and half.
[00:15:23] C2611: Essential Tile Workshop
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Eric Knight: All right on. So in terms of the class in Phoenix, um. If somebody's thinking about getting into tile and starting to specialize, they're not going to start with glass tile mosaic or full pool. They're going to probably start with waterline tile or something else.
Jimmy Reed: I see people starting in pools.
Eric Knight: Full pools?
Jimmy Reed: I mean if,
Eric Knight: Wow.
Jimmy Reed: No, I wouldn't say full pools, but you're not going to find a guy that's just starting to do tile work and be on his own so quickly that he's going to be able to be awarded an all tile pool. That would be very unusual, I think, and probably not the wisest move for anybody including him. That's a lot of liability involved in a glass tile pool. Guys and gals will find their real own comfort level of where to begin and what direction to go. And, you know, hopefully we can talk about that with the students. Hopefully we'll have a, a lot of q and a also, I like, 'cause I always like talking to people and hearing their questions and being able to expand or kind of open their eyes to some options.
Eric Knight: Well, we appreciate you doing this. This is going to be an alternative to the previous tile workshop that, as you know, was created by Amy and Luke Denny. And now you're teaching your version of the class. And I am excited to see what is going to be contained in there because right now we've got a lot of students that have signed up and they don't even know you're the one teaching it yet.
Because this episode hasn't dropped. So we need to get you out on Facebook and let people know. But uh, yeah, it's a hands-on class. So just give us a little overview of what people can expect in that two day tile school with you?
Jimmy Reed: To be honest, quite honest, uh, we're still kind of figuring out the schedule and how we're going to put everything together. As you mentioned earlier, I've never done a two day teaching course myself. I've done plenty of instructional seminars and things, but, uh, a two day thing is, um, lot of time for me to fill.
So I expect that we will have, uh, definitely we will because it is a hands-on opportunity, of course. We'll have mixing materials. We're talking about different materials and how to mix different materials, uh, adhesives, let's say. And then, uh, applying them, we'll have some boards and some, some sheets of glass mosaic tile that people would, will be able to actually touch and feel and, and install into some setting material.
And then we'll have, um, you know. Talk about how to clean the paper if we're using paper face versus a mesh back, or, or, you know, different scenarios.
Eric Knight: Nice.
Jimmy Reed: Installing and cleaning. And then grouting also. and we'll talk about different tools to use and what's available and what's, you know, pros and cons of different things. So, like I say, we're still, uh, really putting it together. Uh, we're getting real close to it and, and I think it's looking good. We'll have a lot of pictures of, and probably some videos, a lot of pictures of some previous jobs that we've done and, um, not just the finish, you know, pretty shots, but the actual meat and bones of what goes into doing an installation.
Eric Knight: Awesome. Now where can listeners learn more about what you do, see your work? What's your website? What's your Facebook, all that?
Jimmy Reed: Um, well, I have to say I've been really lax on the website. I, I believe, I don't even know, I think my website is kind of frozen right now. I haven't done anything with website in a few years. But we have the Facebook, the Rock Solid Tile Facebook page, and also Instagram is also Rock Solid Tile. I don't post that much. Um, but usually I try to do something every week or every other week or so, try to post a few pictures. Then I kind of forget about it. Then I jump back in and say, wait, I got more to show you.
[00:18:58] Closing
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Eric Knight: Nice. I have one final question for you, and I want you to think about this. I was talking to Charles Hanskat two episodes ago. And he's the Executive Director of the American Shotcrete Association. And we brought up how concrete's been around since the Roman era when they discovered it, and they mixed all this stuff together and the coliseum still stands today.
You know what else still stands in Roman cities and Roman ruins? Mosaic tile Art.
Jimmy Reed: Bingo.
Eric Knight: Still there. They're still uncovering it. In fact, I saw an article not too long ago, within the past month where they found, you know, something buried while they were excavating with archeologists this beautiful mosaic floor and they're, they think it was part of a church or something like that.
And they're estimating this is several thousand years old. So this art has been around a long time. So. Talk to me a little bit about how that can inspire your future work and how it's inspired you to get to where you are now. And are you doing work that you hope will live on 500, 600 years after you're gone?
Are you building it that stuff? And is the material today able to last through the eons of time, like the Roman stuff has?
Jimmy Reed: Well, yeah. The difference is what we are usually installing is something that gets abused by the weather and the environments 24 hours a day, 365 days a year. And also being submerged and being attacked with chemicals and other things that, uh, go into swimming pools. So it's kind of a little bit of a difference there. Uh, different than a floor that you may find that's been covered up for a thousand years.
Of course, they're not popping off glass mosaic pieces like we do, like you'll see often in pools, especially west facing walls that are wet and dry constantly. I mean, that's a lot of abuse. But as far as to answer that part of your question, and as far as, um, leaving, I guess some kind of legacy. I mean, I can't tell you how many projects that we've done have already been razed and new homes built. I mean,
Eric Knight: Really.
Jimmy Reed: in that high-end home, high-end home industry is like nothing I've ever seen before. I mean, we'll get finished doing a, you know, maybe a $20 million home, and I'll get called by another contractor several years later. Or somehow get in the loop of it. And it's an address that we worked on, you know, 8, 9, 10 years ago. We did a beautiful pool there. And now it's a empty lot building another monster. So it's kind of crazy. I don't know. it'd be great if my stuff lasted. Um, I don't know about any kind of legacy, but I
Eric Knight: Well, how did they do things so differently back then, you think in the Roman era? Because it almost looks like they had to manually cut every single tile to make these beautiful mosaics. Now we can get them fabricated, but um.
Jimmy Reed: Well, yeah, I mean there's a different style of mosaic manufacturing for sure, and fabrication. And there's many different styles. many of them still are handmade and hand chiseled, you know, just depending on the design.
Eric Knight: Has anybody ever contracted you to do one of those where you had to actually chisel it yourself and they wanted that handmade quality?
Jimmy Reed: No, I'm not a fabricator. I have done some fabrication myself and, and within our, our in-house facility. But most of the time we'll bring in, you know, the big boys, either CGEs or Bisazza, and on the design process. And thinking about the installation, the end installation from the beginning. Big houses like that are, that's all they do is custom giant murals and big production runs of, you know, colors and custom blends and things like that. So a lot of times it's easier to bring them in 'cause they're so efficient and so good at it that it just helps everybody along the way and makes everybody, helps everybody look good.
Eric Knight: Right on. Well, do you have any final words to say to let people know about the class and anything else you wanna say?
Jimmy Reed: about it. Yeah, I'm excited about, um, just taking on a two day course that I've never done before, so maybe it'll lead to, um, uh, ones in the future. Um, but yeah, I'm, I'm looking forward to it a lot and, uh, I really encourage people to come and join the class, sign up and. Also see me walking around at night or in the morning or be before or after classes. Please stop and say hi and ask me questions that you weren't able to, or that you may have forgotten or you don't want to forget in the future.
Eric Knight: Right on. And we will also have some folks in that class that are bilingual. That was a big request that, uh, we could get Spanish speaking in the class. So there will be some folks who can translate what Jimmy is saying. Uh, we may not have the books translated yet, but we could always do that retroactively.
But this is your first time teaching the class, but it's like I said at the beginning, this is definitely not new to you. You've been teaching tile for a very long time, just maybe not in this format. And we are honored to have you part of it. Thank you so much for being on the show and for being part of Watershape University.
Jimmy Reed: Thank you, Eric. I'm honored to be here as well.
Eric Knight: All right. Well this has been episode 175, and this has been Jimmy Reed from Rock Solid Tile. You could check out his antiquated website that he hasn't worked on in several years, but you're probably more likely to see him on social media Rock Solid Tile. He will be teaching our tile school C 2611 in our Phoenix Education Vacation on December 5th and 6th.
Jimmy will also be at the Vanishing Edge class the day before, probably because Rick Chafey's teaching that class, and Jimmy Reid does a lot of Rick Chafey's tile work, so I'm sure he'll have some, some space in that class to talk. Um, whether he wants to or not. That's a different story. But either way, thank you all so much for listening, and if you are a homeowner listening to this and you are thinking about getting some tile work done, you can reach out to us and we can share Jimmy's contact information as well.
I'm Eric Knight, your host, and I do want to thank HASA and Orenda one more time for allowing me to continue this podcast because it just occurred to me that I'm getting to speak to guys like you, Jimmy, who I never really had any business speaking to when I was just doing water chemistry on this show. So thank you so much for being here, and I guess I will see you in just a few weeks.
Jimmy Reed: See you there.
Eric Knight: All right. Awesome, Jimmy. Thank you.