It's pollen season! Orenda's Southeast Regional Manager, Shaun Mulhall, joins the podcast to share what he learned about pollen while researching it for the show. Shaun and Eric talk about what pollen is, how it spreads, how it gets in pools, and how to manage it.
00:00 - Introduction
01:47 - What is pollen?
03:44 - How does pollen spread?
06:21 - Pollen, tannins, and organic staining
07:25 - Spring pollen vs. Fall pollen
08:33 - How does pollen get in swimming pools?
09:10 - How to manage pollen in pools
11:20 - CV-600 and CE-Clarifier are great for managing pollen in water
13:06 - Are there phosphates in pollen?
15:23 - Summary
17:33 - Pollen season and bass fishing
18:49 - Wrap up. Thanks for listening!
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103. How to Manage Pollen in Pools
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[00:00:00] Eric Knight: Welcome back everybody to the Rule Your Pool podcast. This is episode 103. And today we have a special guest with us. He has been on the podcast once, but we were in Atlantic City. It wasn't really a full podcast episode. This is our first time, I should say our third attempt at our first time of having you on the podcast.
[00:00:20] But I want to introduce you all to our Southeast Regional manager, Shaun Mulhall. Shaun, thank you for being on our podcast.
[00:00:26] Shaun Mulhall: Thank you very much Eric. I'm looking forward to it and maybe we can get this one correct.
[00:00:31] Eric Knight: Yeah, third time's the charm. If you don't do it a lot, there's a lot of moving pieces to record a podcast. We got to get Zoom right, garageband, got to get the microphone connected. All sorts of stuff have gone wrong. But I think, I think we're going to be good this time. And if not, I'm just going to have to voice over your part and pretend that you were on the show when I record it next time. So glad you're here for real.
[00:00:53] Shaun Mulhall: That'll work. Thank you.
[00:00:54] Eric Knight: What are we talking about in this episode?
[00:00:57] Shaun Mulhall: Pollen, cleaning up pollen, and all things pollen.
[00:01:02] Eric Knight: I guess that's because pollen hit early this year. It's 2023. It's the first week of March, and I mean, there was pollen in the end of February. I don't think I've seen that before, have you?
[00:01:13] Shaun Mulhall: Super early. Not, not where I'm at. You know, we see maybe South Florida, middle Florida, central Florida, but I'm in Atlanta, Georgia. No, super early this year.
[00:01:22] Eric Knight: Yeah, it has been a warm winter for sure. You did some homework for this episode. And that's what I'm really excited about. Because you know who I'm usually on this podcast with and he doesn't even read show notes, let alone research before an episode. So I don't even know how we're going to do this, but I'm going to let you take the lead and take us into the intro.
[00:01:40] Shaun Mulhall: Well, I won't say anything bad about the person you were talking about there that doesn't read the show notes, but hey, let's talk about pollen.
What is pollen?
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[00:01:47] Eric Knight: So Pollen, you did some homework, you did some research. What did you find?
[00:02:14] Shaun Mulhall: Well, I found out I didn't know a lot about Pollen, or didn't know as much as I thought I might know, and I found out some things that, that really surprised me.
[00:02:23] Eric Knight: Like what?
[00:02:23] Shaun Mulhall: One of the main ones was that pollen has some similarities to green algae. What we uh, what we deal with commonly in pools, correct?
[00:02:34] Eric Knight: Yeah.
[00:02:34] Shaun Mulhall: Pollen has a hard shell, and this is the similarity. It has a hard shell on it, and what makes up most of that hard shell is something called sporopollenin, or I think I put an extra inn in there, but that's normal for the South. So...
[00:02:50] Eric Knight: Hahaha, we need some subtitles on this.
[00:02:52] Shaun Mulhall: We may, we might need spelling. So sporopollenin.
[00:02:56] Eric Knight: Sporopollenin?
[00:02:59] Shaun Mulhall: There we go. you can say it better than me.
[00:03:00] Eric Knight: Sounds like. Yeah. It sounds like a Russian oligarch. So we don't want to, you know, irritate Mr. Sporopollenin.
[00:03:06] Shaun Mulhall: Don't get him mad.
[00:03:07] Eric Knight: Yeah, don't, don't get him mad. All right, so what is sporopollenin?
[00:03:10] Shaun Mulhall: It's a hard shell. So in kind of encases the pollen itself to protect it. And uh, certain green algaes have the same thing.
[00:03:19] Eric Knight: Let me back up because we all know what pollen is, we see it, my truck is yellow right now. Pollen gets all over the place and then when it rains, it gets really dirty on a car. What is it for? Why does pollen exist?
[00:03:31] Shaun Mulhall: It's what allows plants to reproduce and everything from flowers to trees to grasses. Plants reproduce by shedding pollen and accepting pollen and reproducing.
How does pollen spread?
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[00:03:44] Eric Knight: It's not like all plants are touching each other. So how does pollen get around? I mean, we know we have allergies in the spring, so I assume a lot of it just travels through the air with wind. But what other ways does pollen get around?
[00:03:55] Shaun Mulhall: The birds and the bees help the plants do the birds and the bees.
[00:03:58] Eric Knight: Hahaha, so that's a good way of looking at it. So they're spreading it around just because they're eating the flowers and whatever else, and they're spreading that pollen into other plants and that's helping those plants reproduce.
[00:04:10] Shaun Mulhall: Correct. Pollinators. And I love bees. I'll tell you what, bees, we got a fair here in Cumming Georgia, where I live, and, and I go to it every year. And one of my favorite things is a big beekeeping population of people here. And, and I love going and talking to those people and seeing how those things do it.
[00:04:25] And I mean, pollinators are needed. Not only for agriculture, but for plants, flowers obviously and everything. So super, super neat.
[00:04:35] And let's talk a little bit about where the pollens at in the United States right now. Or where it's at where you live. In the South, it's at a medium high level, and that's according to pollen.com, a website that tracks it. What we're dealing with now, maybe up north they'll deal with in a month, month and a half.
[00:04:54] Eric Knight: Right.
[00:04:55] Shaun Mulhall: The culprits of this pollen in the South right now are trees. And I know a lot of the grasses aren't even coming out of dormancy yet. So it's mostly trees.
[00:05:04] Eric Knight: What kind of trees? Like, I, I mean, in the south, southern pines, right? We have pine trees all over the place. We have oak trees, we have maples, we've got all sorts of trees. What are the worst offenders?
[00:05:13] Shaun Mulhall: Well, you know, you've seen it blowing out of those pine trees. You know, the bright green that comes out of those is tremendous. But I'll tell you what, where I live, we got a lot of oak trees around these pools in these backyards, and they are a huge offender. If you've ever cleaned a pool in the spring, or been around one, you've seen what oak trees drop in them. And it's these little stringy brown tassels, and I actually learned this from my research. They're called catkins, or they're actually called tassels. Uh, they're known as both.
[00:05:47] Eric Knight: Those little caterpillar looking things?
[00:05:49] Shaun Mulhall: They look like a little brown caterpillar, right? They're actually the male portion of the oak tree that generates the pollen.
[00:05:56] Eric Knight: Hmm.
[00:05:57] Shaun Mulhall: You've seen them on decks before. You've seen them covering cars, you've seen them on your driveway.
[00:06:02] Eric Knight: Oh yeah. They used to cover my house. I used to have this really big pin oak tree in my front yard. And it would drop billions of those things, I mean, all over the place. And then I'd get stains all over my patio and my roof, which begs the question. I think I know the answer to it, but I see if you found it in your research. Does Pollen contain tannins?
Pollen contains tannins, which can cause organic staining
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[00:06:21] Shaun Mulhall: Definitely, definitely. I think most organic leafy material is going to have some form of tannin in it. We know that that one does. Hence that staining of your deck, that tannin was left behind.
[00:06:33] Eric Knight: Yeah. We covered tannins in a previous episode. I'm trying to remember. Uh, what episode that was. I think if I go back in time, it should have been, yep. Episode 53. Episode 53 came out January of 2022. So over a year ago we talked about organic staining and tannins. And I have definitely seen those little caterpillar tassels as you call it, from oak trees that sit on a deck for a long time and there's just a brown stain around them.
[00:07:01] But those things get in the pool and you open up the skimmer lid and you can't even see the skimmer basket because they're all in there. Just hundreds and hundreds.
[00:07:08] Shaun Mulhall: Oh. Packed full, covered, blowing to the other end of the pool. You know, whichever way the wind's blowing and they get thick.
[00:07:15] Eric Knight: So they're a huge part of the problem. So let's say this stuff gets in pollen, tassels, all this stuff gets into the pool. What are the steps for the listeners to manage this?
Spring pollen vs. Fall pollen
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[00:07:25] Shaun Mulhall: Hey, let me back up a second if we can real quick, Eric, because
[00:07:28] Eric Knight: Sure.
[00:07:28] Shaun Mulhall: Because we've mentioned all this spring stuff and this spring pollen. But I have bad fall allergies. Spring doesn't bother me, but the fall, uh, sneezing, coughing. Usually it turns into a sinus infection. And what I found is, a lot of these trees, some produce pollen year round. Others are more winter-spring. And I'm sure there are certain ones that are more in the fall, that are making their way, getting ready for the winter.
[00:07:55] Eric Knight: So you're telling me you don't have allergies right now in the first week of March?
[00:08:00] Shaun Mulhall: Does not bother me.
[00:08:02] Eric Knight: Oh my gosh, man, I'm so congested. You can even hear it. And I've been sneezing every five minutes. It's pink eyes and everything. I'm definitely worse in the spring. In the fall, I'm totally good, man. I can sit in a tree stand totally fine, no issues whatsoever.
[00:08:14] But interestingly enough, if I go and visit my grandparents in Oregon, where they have completely different trees like Douglas Firs, that do not exist here in the Carolinas, those allergies are terrible in the fall for me. So I guess it's everybody's perception of how they manage those different types of pollen.
[00:08:32] Shaun Mulhall: Everybody's a little different.
How does pollen get in pools?
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[00:08:33] Eric Knight: Right, right, right. Well, um, let's bring this to pools now, because this is the Rule Your Pool podcast, not the Rule Your Pollen podcast. We're talking about it for a reason. Pollen gets in swimming pools. Let's talk about how that happens and what we can do about it.
[00:08:47] Shaun Mulhall: Let's talk about where rain does to pollen. Rain is going to knock it out of the air, bring it down to the ground. Of course it's already in the pool just from from that. It maybe got in there from some birds washing off or, or anything.
[00:09:01] Eric Knight: I've seen pictures of some really bad pollen already. So once it's in, pollen's got to be organic, right? We're talking about plant life.
[00:09:10] Shaun Mulhall: Definitely.
How to manage pollen in pools
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[00:09:10] Eric Knight: When you were looking at how to manage this in your research online, what did you find? What's the advice out there for a pool owner or a pool operator from managing pollen and these tassels getting into the pool?
[00:09:21] Shaun Mulhall: Well, the wonderful interweb, when we search it and look for something, Most of what I found was saying pollen and pools. They were talking about chlorine. And oxidizing it, and shocking to break it down. Of course, you know, would it work? Yeah. Is it the best way? Hmm. We don't believe so at Orenda.
[00:09:42] Eric Knight: Does it really work all the way though?
[00:09:45] Shaun Mulhall: No.
[00:09:46] Eric Knight: If it's organic material, it's not going to get all of it out. I mean, if it did, you wouldn't have any of it on your tile line. And we know that yellow tile line from that pollen that floats. If chlorine could completely remove pollen, it would, but it's not made to do that.
[00:09:59] Shaun Mulhall: Not at all. Before we were using a chemical to take care of them. What, what could we do? What would a pool owner or a pool pro do to preemptively try to alleviate it? And, and first we're going to say physically removing it from the pool and the surrounding area. Especially the surrounding area.
[00:10:15] You got those tassels falling on the deck. Let's make sure we blow off the pollen from the deck. You know, backpack blower, sweeping, rinsing, pressure washing, uh, doing the spring cleanup. Get it away from the pool. Keep it away from it so it doesn't have a chance to get in the water.
[00:10:30] Eric Knight: Or less of a chance, some is still inevitably going to get in because it's coming from the air. But if it's on the deck and you have a yellow deck, push it away.
[00:10:38] Shaun Mulhall: Anything you can do to lessen the amount is beneficial.
[00:10:41] Eric Knight: Okay, makes sense. Now what about the pollen in the water?
[00:10:44] Shaun Mulhall: You want to get stuff out of the water as effectively and as quickly as you can. Anything you get out of is, is less chemicals that are in that water that has to fight that. So let's net the pool out, let's make sure those skimmer baskets stay clean so that they can do an effective job of, of skimming the top of the water. Just keep the pool as clean as possible mechanically.
[00:11:07] Eric Knight: Right. So pollen floats. We know that, we've all seen it stay on the surface. So it doesn't necessarily get pulled down into the skimmer, into the filter very easily because it stays floating. So what can we do to get pollen filtered out?
CV-600 and CE-Clarifier are great for removing pollen from pools
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[00:11:20] Shaun Mulhall: You know, you, you see different net things that are made. You see all this, but really, you, you've got to keep the filtration system running as effectively as possible. And then it's going to be a matter of chemically treating and using the appropriate products to get that pollen out of the water.
[00:11:39] And that's going to be a purge dose of CV-600 to start the pool, and using our CE-Clarifier to be able to bind those particles together so that they can get to the filter faster.
[00:11:50] Eric Knight: I think enzymes in general are a good idea because what we're talking about is a complex carbon. And that's what enzymes break down. They're not going to physically get rid of the entire particle, but I think that's what you mean by the clarifier. Because chitosan clarifier is going to bind a bunch together into a bigger molecule and send it to the filter.
[00:12:07] Then that begs the question, okay, we've got enzymes in there. We're taking care of the surface oils. We're breaking down this pollen. Now what do we do with the debris? It gets into the filter. Here's the question. Do we clean the filter at the beginning of the year? Or do we try to see if we can get through pollen season and then clean the filter?
[00:12:26] Shaun Mulhall: Well, I hope you have a clean filter coming off your winterization. Uh, but without going past any manufacturer's recommendations as pressures and stuff, we want to let that filter out and go as long I think towards the end of spring as we can. And hopefully get past pollen season so we don't have to clean it multiple times.
[00:12:45] It's all going to be determined on what, what the pressures go to in your filter and what your flow rates and how effective that keeps going.
[00:12:51] Eric Knight: But theoretically, if we can get through pollen season, or at least the bulk of it, and then clean the filter when we absolutely have to, we should be better off into the season?
[00:13:00] Shaun Mulhall: You are ready to go for your swim season and going forward with that. Definitely.
Are there phosphates in pollen?
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[00:13:06] Eric Knight: Well, it makes me wonder now because it's organic material, what about phosphates? You know, we talk about opening the spring with a purge. That's what we do for the Orenda program for every pool, regardless of pollen. You always want to get an enzyme residual in at the beginning of the season, and then you just maintain weekly from there based on your bather load.
[00:13:24] But we also want to remove phosphates at the beginning of the year, and that is what really drives the timing of a filter clean. Because if you're filtering out all that phosphate dust, you either have to vacuum out or filter it out, that justifies a cleaning. So what would you do in terms of timing a PR-10,000 treatment?
[00:13:43] Shaun Mulhall: Really depends on how you closed in the fall. Did you have a solid cover? Did you keep a lot of that stuff out of there all winter long? Did you have a mesh cover? You know, the PR-10,000 is definitely part of our opening treatment program.
[00:13:57] So, I think you really got to watch the pressures then, because it's going to depend a lot on how much phosphates in that water and how much filter loading you get. You're adding to it with the PR, combined with what you're doing with the clarifier. I think it's even more important there with the enzymes to be able to break down as much as the much of that pollen so it doesn't load the filter. You know, because you are going to load it some with the PR-10,000.
[00:14:20] Eric Knight: While we've been on here, I just pulled up on the interwebs. Um, it does show that pollen does contain phosphate and nitrate and carbon. Isn't that crazy? So it's decaying organics, right? You've got organo phosphates getting in. You've got nitrates, which you can't really do much about. And you've got carbon, which the enzymes address. So it's like the perfect storm of wanting to do a purge at the beginning of the year and then cleaning the filter after pollen season.
[00:14:51] Shaun Mulhall: Sounds like we have the regiment to be able to take care of of two of those three.
[00:14:54] Eric Knight: Well, I know you're relatively new to our company, but have you purged pools during pollen season before?
[00:15:01] Shaun Mulhall: I actually did one with a dealer just Monday. It was amazing that pollen on top. When we purged it before we left, you could see just the, the enzymes, pushing the pollen together, clumping it up, attacking it, which is, is what you'll see. And you could see that already happening on the surface of the water within 15 minutes after the purge of dose going in.
[00:15:22] Eric Knight: Pretty crazy.
Summary
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[00:15:23] Eric Knight: So let me see if I can recap what you're telling me. Pollen is the reproduction mechanism for plants and it's spread around by birds and bees, helping plants do the birds and the bees. And then there's wind. And then rain takes it out of the air, puts it on the ground or in the pool, and maybe it even washes into the pool.
[00:15:41] So what we do about this is we try to get it away from the pool if it's on the deck so that it doesn't wash in the pool. And then what's in the pool, whether it's these oak tassels, or pine needles, or leaves, and pollen itself, physically remove as much as possible. Clean out the skimmer baskets. And then go as long as you can before you have to clean the filter.
[00:16:02] But the way you do that is by addressing the pollen itself with enzymes and clarifier. Is that what I'm hearing?
[00:16:11] Shaun Mulhall: That sounds like a great explanation of what we just went over. Yes.
[00:16:15] Eric Knight: Well, we hope that the listeners out there give it a shot. See if it can clean up the pollen in your pool. Anything you want to add before we go here, Shaun?
[00:16:23] Shaun Mulhall: Hey, just, uh, take a look at everything we have. You know, and take a look at our education that we have, whether it's our podcast, website, and learn not only how to Rule Your Pool, but the other stuff that we offer. If you have any suggestions of situations you've run into in the field and you haven't heard a podcast on it, I think it's podcast@orendatech.com.
[00:16:44] Eric Knight: Yep. podcast@orendatech.com. That's the email.
[00:16:47] Shaun Mulhall: Yeah. Email us some suggestions...
[00:16:48] Eric Knight: Wait, hold on, hold on. Are you telling me you actually listen to our podcast?
[00:16:52] Shaun Mulhall: I haven't listened to all of them. I'm not going to say that. Uh, but yes.
[00:16:56] Eric Knight: Well, Jarred has never listened to any of them.
[00:16:57] Shaun Mulhall: Well, no. I started at episode one and, and started listening. But I don't have a radio voice, unlike you, Eric. And I have to be careful because your voice is very relaxing when I'm driving, so,
[00:17:11] Eric Knight: Oh so I just put you to sleep?! Hahaha
[00:17:13] Shaun Mulhall: You will put me to sleep. So,
[00:17:14] Eric Knight: Well, hey, you know what? I'll take that as a compliment, but at the same time, ouch.
[00:17:20] Shaun Mulhall: No, it's not the content. No content is just. It, the voice. So, uh,
[00:17:25] Eric Knight: Ohhhhhhhh.
[00:17:25] Shaun Mulhall: You know, maybe, yeah, I could lay back on a couch and, and you could walk me through some of my issues, so...
Pollen season and bass fishing
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[00:17:33] Eric Knight: I don't know how to take that, but, okay. Hey, you actually, now that, uh, now that I'm thinking about it... for those of you who don't know Shaun. Shaun is a borderline professional bass fisher. You were pro for a while or semi-pro and you're involved in the competition bass fishing world.
[00:17:49] Shaun Mulhall: Uh, that's all relative. I've won some money. Still not on the plus side probably. But, uh, yes, I enjoy the game.
[00:17:57] Eric Knight: So what does pollen season mean for bass fishing?
[00:18:00] Shaun Mulhall: I get excited when I see this pollen start falling because, you know that it's spring and the lakes are warming up. And the fish are moving out of their winter haunts and, and getting shallow. Because just like the trees and everything, they want to do the birds and the bees as well.
[00:18:15] And they get up there shallow. Unfortunately, there's a lot of pollen on that water too. And it gets thick. And sometimes you can't see through it. And it hinders the way you fish. Those tassels and everything. So it's something we deal with, uh, on the lakes as well, not only just in the pools.
[00:18:31] Eric Knight: I bet, I bet. Well, uh, if you're Anything is good at fishing as I am at backing up a fishing boat into a loading dock, then I'm sure you'll do all right.
[00:18:42] Shaun Mulhall: There's sometimes you wish you had stuff on video, and that's one of them. So,
[00:18:47] Eric Knight: Hey, if you can't make fun of yourself, you don't deserve to make fun of anyone else.
Wrap up
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[00:18:49] Eric Knight: Anyway, this has been episode 103 of the Rule Your Pool podcast. I hope you found it valuable. Shaun, thank you so much for doing homework. It took a big burden off of my desk. Normally I'm the one doing research and here you are open with all 10 different tabs on your browser, reading all about pollen. So it saves me a lot of time.
[00:19:06] And, and consider, you know, like I said at the beginning, consider who I'm used to being on here with. He's never done homework. You never even read the show notes. The fact is you didn't just do the homework, you wrote the show notes. It's incredible. You took the driver's seat of this episode and I'm very grateful that you did. Thank you for being on.
[00:19:20] Shaun Mulhall: Thank you Eric. And thank you to all our listeners and, and hopefully you get something out of it.
[00:19:24] Eric Knight: If you have any questions for us, you can visit our help center, ask.orendatech.com, or email a question, podcast@orendatech.com. I'm your host, Eric Knight. Thank you so much, and in the next episode, I think we're going to be talking about something called calcium sulfate, so stay tuned. Take care everyone.