Kathryn Varden has been our Western Regional Manager and team mom. Sadly she is moving on to get back to her roots in the pool industry, selling slides and other accessories. In this episode, we honor Kathryn and her contributions to Orenda, and enjoy her top 10 things she learned while working with us.
00:00 - Introduction
00:19 - Kathryn's background
03:48 - 10. Trade shows can be laid back
06:46 - 9. Paper still matters, but sharing digital marketing is effortless
10:22 - 8. Get training
11:52 - 7. Don't be a splash and dash pool pro
13:57 - 6. Measure your pool
15:37 - 5. Stop abusing trichlor tabs
18:59 - 4. Temperature matters
20:16 - 3. Obey physics, stop fighting them
20:53 - 2. Test and know your fill water
25:35 - 1. LSI first, range chemistry second
29:46 - Wrap up
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109. Top 10 things Kathryn has learned from Orenda
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[00:00:00] Eric Knight: Welcome back to The Rule Your Pool podcast. This is episode 109. I begrudgingly have my co-host on here. Jarred, welcome back to the show.
[00:00:09] Jarred Morgan: I love being on this show, Eric. I look forward to it on a non weekly basis.
[00:00:14] Eric Knight: Right, right, right. Well, we actually have a special guest and part of the reason you're on here is because this is a special episode. And we want to introduce Kathryn Varden to our audience. Kathryn, thank you for being on the show.
[00:00:25] Kathryn Varden: You know, I've actually been on the show one other time.
[00:00:28] Jarred Morgan: Ooh, man.
[00:00:29] Eric Knight: Well, hold on.
[00:00:30] Jarred Morgan: This is awkwardness. This is,
[00:00:31] Eric Knight: let's be very specific. No, it's not awkward. Tell us when. Tell us when.
[00:00:37] Kathryn Varden: Atlantic City, I was in the background and I said,
[00:00:40] Eric Knight: You made a cameo.
[00:00:40] Kathryn Varden: Hi everyone!
[00:00:41] Eric Knight: Yeah, that's right.
[00:00:42] Kathryn Varden: This is technically the second podcast for me.
[00:00:46] Eric Knight: Well, it means a lot that you're on here for real this time. So thank you for being here.
[00:00:49] Kathryn Varden: Thanks for having me.
[00:00:51] Eric Knight: I had called Kathryn yesterday with an idea for a podcast, which was firmly rejected. But you came back with a much better idea. So why don't you tell the audience what this episode is about?
[00:01:02] Kathryn Varden: This episode is a throwback to David Letterman with his Top 10 List. And I wanted to do the top 10 things that I learned while working at Orenda.
[00:01:14] Eric Knight: I love it. Well, let's get right into it. Episode 109 of the Rule Your Pool podcast. Let's go.
Kathryn's background
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[00:01:19] Eric Knight: Before getting into this top 10 list, tell us a little bit about yourself, how you found us. And what's your story?
[00:01:47] Kathryn Varden: Oh, that's a loaded question there.
[00:01:51] Eric Knight: Well, let's, let's be brief, let's summarize it. If I challenge you, you got five sentences, how would you do it?
[00:01:56] Kathryn Varden: Oh, good Lord. Um, well I have been in the pool industry for about 23 years and I know Harold. And he approached me A little under three years ago to come work for Orenda. And I said, Harold, my background is accessories. I work with builders. I know nothing about water chemistry. And he was like, you can learn. And he was right. So that's how I ended up with Orenda.
[00:02:19] Eric Knight: Fair enough. None of us actually know anything about water chemistry. We make up as we go.
[00:02:23] Kathryn Varden: But unfortunately I am going back into the accessory world. My background is in landscape architecture and I'm a design nerd. So another opportunity came up, and so my stint in the water chemistry world is now kind of ending.
[00:02:40] Jarred Morgan: Eric, did you catch that?
[00:02:42] Eric Knight: What?
[00:02:42] Jarred Morgan: She's leaving us. And who's going to manage all of our paper now? Especially at all these trade shows? Kathryn is going to sell slides. Kathryn, come on. Can we still task you with making sure everything's organized and keep us in line in the booth?
[00:03:01] Eric Knight: This is team mom here, we're talking about. Now listen, I I'm very happy for you, Kathryn.
[00:03:05] Kathryn Varden: Thanks.
[00:03:05] Eric Knight: There are no hard feelings here. I totally understand being a better fit and I think we've had a lot of good times and, and that's what this episode is about. We want to celebrate you because you've been a great addition to our team. And we hate to see you go, but we're very happy for you at the same time.
[00:03:18] Kathryn Varden: It's just a good opportunity for me and my family. Like I said, I've really enjoyed my time at Orenda. Learned a whole lot, and I look at pools very differently now than I did before.
[00:03:30] Eric Knight: Excellent.
[00:03:30] Jarred Morgan: Then Eric, you did your job. I don't know if I did my job at all, but you did yours at least.
[00:03:35] Eric Knight: You have a job?
[00:03:36] Jarred Morgan: Sometimes.
[00:03:38] Eric Knight: Fair enough. Okay, Kathryn. You have the top 10 things you've learned at Orenda, and we are fascinated to hear this. So gloves off, let's go.
10. Trade shows can be laid back
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[00:03:48] Kathryn Varden: Number 10 of the top 10 things that I learned working for Orenda, it is okay to wear blue jeans at a trade show, and it's okay to set up a trade show booth a half an hour before the show starts.
[00:04:02] Jarred Morgan: So I have a, I have a question here. Is that really a thing? Is I'm assuming dress code. You don't want to get crazy with it, but, you know, jeans are pretty nice, right? Is that, is that like, looked down upon at a trade show? I, I need to know this for, for my own awareness.
[00:04:20] Kathryn Varden: I had never worn a pair of blue jeans at a trade show until I worked for Orenda.
[00:04:25] Eric Knight: What?
[00:04:25] Kathryn Varden: Mm-hmm.
[00:04:26] Jarred Morgan: Man, I,
[00:04:26] Eric Knight: What else do you wear? Like what else can you wear at a trade show?
[00:04:29] Jarred Morgan: I guess that khaki,
[00:04:30] Eric Knight: we're in the pool business
[00:04:31] Jarred Morgan: that kills our khaki short idea for next trade show season.
[00:04:33] Eric Knight: I was going to say, what are we, Jake from State Farm? We don't wear khakis at a trade show. You got to be comfortable.
[00:04:39] Jarred Morgan: And also we take pride in being able to set up our booth in five minutes.
[00:04:43] Kathryn Varden: I think our record was 10 minutes. 10 minutes long to set up.
[00:04:46] Jarred Morgan: Guys, y'all need to understand something. Kathryn's our team mom here. And when Eric, me, Joe, Shawn, are at the Atlantic City Show and the trade show starts at 10:30 and the booth isn't set up at 10:15, someone's pacing in the trade show hallway right there, just wondering where we are. And you know what? It miraculously happens, doesn't it, Kathryn?
[00:05:07] Kathryn Varden: It does.
[00:05:07] Jarred Morgan: Now, granted, you do stress and put a lot of effort into getting it ready at 10:30, but it happens. It, it magically pops up.
[00:05:16] Eric Knight: Funny story about that at Atlantic City this year. Our local reps were texting me saying, Hey, the show starts in 30 minutes. Where's your booth? Where are you guys? Blah, blah, blah. I'm like, don't worry, we'll be there. What do you mean there's nothing in the booth? Don't worry we'll be there. Was that by design or was this an accident? I said, no, it's by design like we're good.
[00:05:37] And so Kathryn and I are going up the escalator. You remember this, Kathryn? We go up the escalator and it's like 9:42 in the morning. Right. The show starts at 10:30. I'm teaching a class, I thought the next day, at 10:00 AM. Or maybe it was 8:42 and it was 9:00 AM whatever. Anyways, I think it's like the next day. No problem.
[00:05:57] I'm going to go help set up the booth. Take our time. You said to me, Kathryn, when are you teaching your class? And I double checked the app and I'm like, oh, I'm teaching in 17 minutes. I'll see you in the trade show floor.
[00:06:08] And so I just kept going up the escalator as you got off and you went up and set up the booth in record time, no problem.
[00:06:14] Uh, Jarred was still sleeping. I'm fairly certain, so he and Shaun leisurely strolled across Atlantic City that morning and got there and caught the tail end of my class. But yeah, that's how we roll Kathryn. It's a lot more laid back, isn't it?
[00:06:29] Kathryn Varden: Uh, yes. You have actually helped me out a lot on, uh, taking a chill pill out there.
[00:06:36] Eric Knight: Oh, good, good. Okay, so that's number 10. It's okay to wear blue jeans and not stress about setting up the booth. That is absolutely accurate. I think that's an awesome observation. Okay, so, uh, all right. What's number nine?
9. Paper still matters, but sharing digital marketing is effortless
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[00:06:46] Kathryn Varden: Number nine, I am known as the paper queen, so paper does matter. However, uh, there's definitely a place for paper, but, um, using the app is pretty darn amazing. Let me tell you, because it's full of articles, procedures, on common problems that we experience out in the swimming pool industry.
[00:07:09] And what's nice about it is you can easily share it. It's always up to date. Um, and if you're a pool professional and you need to deliver some bad news to your customer, it kind of takes you out of the, the element because it's a third party sharing that information. So yeah. Paper matters. However, the app is pretty darn amazing. And side note, your back will thank you since you don't have to haul it around.
[00:07:34] Jarred Morgan: So, so a couple things here, uh, everybody should know.
[00:07:37] Eric Knight: I love, I love this so much,
[00:07:38] Jarred Morgan: Eric and I hate paper marketing, with a passion.
[00:07:42] Eric Knight: Oh God. It's the worst.
[00:07:42] Jarred Morgan: And it's not because it's not valuable, we understand there's value in it, but the problem is, number one, you got to lug it around, which Kathryn has a PhD in. Just ask Eric for his x-ray video on the security line going through the airport.
[00:07:55] Eric Knight: At TSA?
[00:07:56] Jarred Morgan: Yeah. Yeah. It's like a eight inch stack of paper in her backpack.
[00:08:00] Eric Knight: Huge stack in her backpack. It's hilarious.
[00:08:02] Jarred Morgan: So that, but then if we need to make changes or we want to update something and we have a closet full of brochures and pamphlets and all these things, they are now trash.
[00:08:14] So, not a huge fan, but we understand the value. But Kathryn, she takes it to another level. She would send us text messages and pictures of things she would print and put on distribution counters and just all these ideas, which, I'm glad she did it because it did help us, I'm not going to lie. But I'm glad it just wasn't on my plate to get those things printed. So thank you Kathryn.
[00:08:35] Eric Knight: Well, I remember raiding the marketing closet at Harold's house with all those old shelf talkers from before I worked for the company. And Kathryn's like, this is gold. Yeah, we could do this. And I'm looking at, this is garbage. This is trash, let's burn this up. And she's like, no, no, no, no, no. I'll use all of it. And you did. You used all of it, Kathryn, didn't you?
[00:08:53] Kathryn Varden: Absolutely. I made sure that Orenda was well represented in those distributor showrooms.
[00:08:59] Eric Knight: And so there is a place for it as much as I don't like it. But that said, If we're going to do this, we got to make sure that it's timeless when, where we get into trouble is we get too specific on marketing and then it gets dated and then we like update our procedure and we learn something new.
[00:09:14] So we have to delete everything that we had out in circulation. Then we got to ship it all over the country.
[00:09:19] Jarred Morgan: Shipping. Yes, that is fun. Because somebody has to ship all these things out and that unfortunately falls on my lap sometimes. But honestly, Laura's lap most of the time. So Laura, good job. Hopefully we ship less marketing material.
[00:09:34] Eric Knight: That's the hope. I will give you credit where it's due. The one thing that I will not argue was a great idea that I was totally against
[00:09:41] Jarred Morgan: the startup platform.
[00:09:44] Eric Knight: No, that was my idea. And that's, I own that. I was totally for that one and now I'm not. Uh, was the rep handbook. I will give you credit for that. That was a lot of work, but that has panned out really well, so thank you for that.
[00:09:57] Jarred Morgan: I did just order more of those. That's the only thing I actually order, so yes, I agree with that.
[00:10:02] Eric Knight: Yeah. All right, so that's number nine. Paper does matter. There's a place for it, but digital marketing has its advantages. Okay.
[00:10:08] Jarred Morgan: Check our app. People check our app. It's up to date.
[00:10:11] Eric Knight: We have an app?
[00:10:13] Kathryn Varden: I think there's what, 10 people using the app these days? Something like that. Wait, no, we hit a hundred, didn't we? Okay.
[00:10:20] Eric Knight: Yeah, I think it's 110.
8. Get training
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[00:10:22] Kathryn Varden: Okay. Number eight. Uh, things I've learned in the pool industry, get training.
[00:10:27] Don't assume what the industry did back in the eighties works now. There's plenty of free training out there and lots of great classes at trade shows. So if you're a pool professional, go get training. You will learn something every time you go.
[00:10:45] Eric Knight: I agree with that. Mainly the statement where what you were doing in the eighties and nineties does not necessarily apply now. And that's because tap water has changed, technology has changed, concentration of chemicals has changed. That's good feedback. Anything you want to add on that, Jarred?
[00:11:00] Jarred Morgan: Obviously you came in from a completely different position and knowledge base being on the accessory slides and things like that. So you knew not a whole lot about water chemistry, so you soaked in information like a sponge.
[00:11:12] You read as much as you could. You took the classes, you heard perspectives from many different people, which honestly, we recommend everybody do that. Don't, don't just listen to what we have to say because we're the ones saying it. Go, go hear other people, listen to how they teach, see what they're teaching, and make your own decision, make your own informed decision.
[00:11:29] And Kathryn happened to do that. And I think it was very eye-opening just to hear the different things that are being taught in our industry. Take the classes. Read the books, and form your own opinion.
[00:11:43] Eric Knight: Yeah. Kathryn you were a sponge for the last few years. You took a lot of classes and learned very quickly, so that's very impressive and admirable. So good for you on that.
7. Don't be a splash and dash pool pro
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[00:11:52] Kathryn Varden: All right, number seven. Don't be a Dashing Dan or a Splash and dash pool professional out there. Pay attention to the trifecta of a happy pool. Circulation, filtration, sanitation. Learn the pools, learn their personalities. Because I think every pool has a personality.
[00:12:13] I tell that to my friends now. I look at the companies that they hire and some are better out there than others.
[00:12:20] Eric Knight: Yeah, for sure. Splash and dash professionals, they go in, they may not even test the water or they use a strip, they use something really quickly. They just drop a bunch of stuff in, might net, probably don't vacuum, get out. They're hitting 15 plus pools a day. It's crazy. You're just not spending more than 15 minutes in a backyard. You're not really servicing that pool. So I agree with that.
[00:12:39] Jarred Morgan: You're right, because a lot of times we get phone calls with customers that are trying to fix a specific problem. And it has nothing to do with sanitation, they have plenty of chlorine. But their pump has got a clog and it's not circulating well. Or their filter pressure is at 30 psi. Or there's just some cog in this wheel that's broken that has nothing to do with water chemistry. And unless you look at the whole picture, these things all feed into the equation of whether or not you're going to have a good pool and a happy customer. So no splash and dash.
[00:13:11] Eric Knight: Kathryn, what particularly about Orenda taught you that?
[00:13:14] Kathryn Varden: Well, it was very interesting when I would get a phone call from people and they say, oh, I'm experiencing this. And I would be like, what's your LSI? What are your readings? You know, um, what's your alkalinity at? What's your CYA? And they would have no clue.. They didn't pay attention.
[00:13:32] Eric Knight: It's very common. Now it's getting less and less the more people adopt and they actually pay attention to the LSI. And by the way, those calls come in less and less as they get better and better about it. So you noticed in your territories of the West coast and Arizona, that your customers were having less issues when they were taking those factors in? Is that what I'm hearing?
[00:13:52] Kathryn Varden: Yeah, because you can predict what your pool's going to do.
[00:13:56] Eric Knight: That's a great point.
6. Measure your pool
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[00:13:57] Kathryn Varden: All right, number six. Measure your pool. Don't assume. Use a water meter if you're filling up the pool. Measure dimensions, write it down. Know how big your pool is. Just don't guess because you could really be throwing off your water chemistry if you don't really know the size for your pool.
[00:14:17] Eric Knight: Yeah, that's so good. That's one of the six bad habits. One of the biggest mistakes, because it really stems into everything. Every chemical dose, every single week is going to be wrong. If you don't know the volume of that pool. Very good point.
[00:14:27] Jarred Morgan: Now, I will say as a pool professional used to clean pools, I could walk into a backyard and eyeball a pool gallon wise pretty well. And I'm not the only one listening because there's only like, what, 125 of us now? And I don't even listen.
[00:14:43] Eric Knight: No, no. We broke a hundred and we broke 130.
[00:14:45] Jarred Morgan: Yeah. I don't even listen. But either way, it doesn't take that long to measure a pool once. Include the spa in your total water gallons and just write that number on the inside of your control panel or somewhere easy to reference.
[00:14:58] Because quite honestly, you might not be the only one at that pool. you might have to send another service technician or someone might be filling in for you. So make sure you write that somewhere where it's standardized across all your pools. So everybody that works for you, or if you're the homeowner, you're doing a favor for the next person that buys the house. Put the gallons on something that's going to be permanent.
[00:15:17] Eric Knight: And that goes so much further beyond just weekly maintenance. That's protection of the equipment, protection of the surface. Whether it's vinyl, fiberglass, or plaster, doesn't matter. It's just the longevity of the pool. That's a huge investment in that person's backyard. You need to know how big it is. You need to know how to treat that. So good observation, Kathryn. Measure your pool.
5. Stop abusing trichlor tabs
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[00:15:37] Kathryn Varden: All right, number five, and this one might
[00:15:39] Eric Knight: Top five, here we go!
[00:15:40] Kathryn Varden: Top five. This one might be a little controversial out here on the West Coast, but don't be a complete tab abuser, please. You do have to have some cyanuric acid in your pool, not denying that. But in the winter, use liquid. You don't need all that cyanuric acid in the winter time. And then in the summer, supplement with a tab. Help keep that chlorine residual going on in your pool for the rest of the week. But, uh, if possible, keep your cyanuric acid down low and just don't fill up your floater with six tabs.
[00:16:15] Jarred Morgan: I would go a few steps further there. Number one, I'm not a huge fan of floaters. I understand there's convenience. I understand there's certain application that go with using a floater, but if you can plum in a chlorinator, please do it. It gets better distribution throughout the water and in the pool.
[00:16:33] You're right. Don't just load up a feeder and crank it on full blast. We agree, don't just skyrocket your cyanuric acid levels, because it's going to build up, it's going to accumulate and it's going to cause problems down the road. And we do have some naysayers. I think Eric and I had a here's to the naysayers episode, which is one of my personal favorites. Um, that said, Hey, I need to have, you know, 80, 90 cyanuric acid to keep chlorine in my water or to keep algae at bay and all these other things. And research says that's not the case.
[00:17:06] Or the hotter, the temperature, all these things that are thrown in our direction. Um, I think we've done a pretty decent job of combating those arguments. Eric? Yeah?
[00:17:17] Eric Knight: Uh, I think so. Episode 85, by the way, I just looked it up. Episode 85 was here's to the naysayers. I really like this because when people ask us who our biggest competitors are, I don't really think about other chemical companies. Because the truth is it's bad habits.
[00:17:32] It's online material that may be old or outdated or incorrect. Or things that go against our philosophy. It's really bad habits. That's what we compete against. So I understand it's a habit change to get off trichlor as a primary chlorine. It is made to supplement, non stabilized chlorine.
[00:17:54] Jarred Morgan: Here's the bottom line. We don't have the position that stabilizer or cyanuric acid is a bad thing. It does provide benefits. No doubt. It's the abuse that, that's really what we're talking about here.
[00:18:05] Eric Knight: Now, Kathryn, you are the only person of the three of us who has actually taken Orenda Academy because Jarred and I actually produced it.
[00:18:12] Jarred Morgan: Fact. I don't want to...
[00:18:13] Eric Knight: So, as you know. No, we're not, I'm not watching those videos again. My God, we devoted two years creating that thing. Uh, but Kathryn, when you took it, pillar four is all about minimal CYA.
[00:18:22] Kathryn Varden: Yes.
[00:18:23] Eric Knight: Was that your first exposure to understanding the detriments of over stabilization? Or did you know about it before Orenda?
[00:18:30] Kathryn Varden: I knew nothing of it before I started working. Actually, I took my CPO Class, four pillars, and Orenda Academy before I even worked for Orenda.
[00:18:41] Eric Knight: Wow. And you still chose to come here?
[00:18:44] Kathryn Varden: You know, you have to face your fears. You know, I thought...
[00:18:47] Eric Knight: You're a kind lady, but you lack judgment. Um, uh, anyway, okay, so that's a great one. Do not abuse trichlor tabs. I think that's awesome. All right, what else?
4. Temperature matters
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[00:18:59] Kathryn Varden: Okay, number four. Temperature matters. You can't treat your pool the same in the winter as you do in the summer.
[00:19:07] Eric Knight: Amen. That is very important, and I think that's an overlooked thing. Cause temperature is the easiest of the LSI factors to measure. You just need a thermometer, no reagents necessary. good observation.
[00:19:18] Kathryn Varden: Yeah. I have the thermometer. Oh, go ahead.
[00:19:20] Jarred Morgan: I was going to say, our app gives customers the visual on what the temperature actually does, and I think that is absolutely key to drawing that to the attention of, of a pool owner.
[00:19:31] Eric Knight: Kathryn, you were saying something?
[00:19:33] Kathryn Varden: Oh, I actually have a thermometer tied to the handle of my test kit. And when I go to a pool and test the water, I throw my thermometer in. Especially this time of year when it heats up quickly here in Arizona, I think, oh, the water's probably 72, 74, and then all of a sudden I'm like, what?
[00:19:51] It's already to, you know, the high seventies? So it definitely surprises me and I think sometimes we assume what the temperature is, but not necessarily knowing what it is at that pool.
[00:20:02] Eric Knight: Right. And it's even more drastic in the cold. At some point your hand is cold. But that could be 60 degrees or that could be 40 degrees.
[00:20:09] Jarred Morgan: Tying the thermometer with a string on your test kit, that's great.
[00:20:12] Eric Knight: All right, so we are in the top three now. Let's get to it.
3. Obey physics, stop fighting them
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[00:20:16] Kathryn Varden: Pools can be predictable if you obey physics. Stop fighting it. And write things down. You'll start seeing the pattern.
[00:20:27] Eric Knight: Yes, that is so true. We are an industry of habits and we are so used to trying to beat water into submission, and water is not predictable as a result. All you can predict is that it's not going to be where you want it.
[00:20:41] But when you obey physics, water behaves pretty much the exact same way every week unless some external factor changed it like a birthday party or something like that. That's a very good one, Kathryn.
2. Test and know your fill water
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[00:20:53] Kathryn Varden: Uh, number two. And this one is, close to my heart because I in the past have dealt with a lot of pool builders. And it really surprises me, especially with new pools, how many people do not know the chemistry of their fill water? So number two, know your fill water.
[00:21:13] Eric Knight: Yeah. Especially for startups. And yeah, in your previous job and now you're actually going back to that same space with a different company. Um, you probably did not come across many chemistry issues, but when you did regarding slides and, and rail goods and things, what were the issues that you saw?
[00:21:33] Kathryn Varden: Ooh. Uh,
[00:21:36] Eric Knight: Not in the show notes, is it? That's a real question.
[00:21:38] Kathryn Varden: It's not, boy, you're making me think here. Uh,
[00:21:42] Eric Knight: Well this is an intellectual podcast when we want it to be. The rest of it's just complete Tom Foolery.
[00:21:49] Kathryn Varden: It depends on the type of pool. Sometimes we would deal with fiberglass pools and people would ask about chalking of fiberglass pools. Sometimes we would see some handrails that would turn colors. Usually because somebody's pouring acid right next to them.
[00:22:08] Eric Knight: Oh, yeah, that'll do it. So I'm guessing if you have that you've seen stains?
[00:22:13] Kathryn Varden: Yes, absolutely.
[00:22:15] Eric Knight: I was just wondering because in that space, dealing with, um, what do you call them, bonus features or what you got a word for them? Um, toys. They're not toys, fixtures?
[00:22:28] Kathryn Varden: Accessories.
[00:22:29] Eric Knight: Accessories. Thank you. Thank, uh, this is
[00:22:31] Jarred Morgan: big, big word. Sorry, Eric couldn't comprehend.
[00:22:34] Eric Knight: Oh, that just deflated. I had the, a brain fart taking over half of my body. I'm so glad you got rid of that. It feels great. All right, so accessories. You didn't necessarily have to know much about chemistry, and I think that ties to my experience many years ago, dealing with pool builders.
[00:22:49] I'd say, okay, well where's your test kit? And they're like, I don't have a test kit. Why don't you have a test kit? You're a pool builder. He's like, exactly, I'm a pool builder. I don't turn the water on. And they didn't care. And that has changed over years. If you are a pool builder listening to this, first of all, thank you for being here.
[00:23:07] Second of all, get a test kit if you don't already have one. You should have one. And you should know how to use it and you should use it. But a lot of them just, that's not my responsibility. But the truth is, if you don't know what the tap water is, you could be building a pool that could have a problem right out of the gate when you could have tested the tap water and prepared for it.
[00:23:27] You could have known you needed a pre-filter, for instance, if there were a lot of metals in it. That's just one example. But you can also command a good startup from the beginning to make sure that the tap water is accounted for.
[00:23:38] Jarred Morgan: Having done many startups, we're trying to change the habit of an industry that is used to just saying, I'm plastering this pool tomorrow and I show up two days later because it's already full, right? That's the norm of a startup process where the service company will get a call from a builder saying, this pool's full. Go start it up. Go turn the equipment on, start adjusting chemicals when it's full.
[00:24:02] Well, obviously, if you've listened to us enough and seen our material, we're trying to tell you plan ahead.
[00:24:08] If you know the water source is going to be a problem, why would you fill a pool up knowing that it's a problem? That just doesn't make sense. At the same time, this doesn't just revolve around starting up a new pool.
[00:24:20] This also revolves around having this ideology that a certain area or a certain part of town has hard water or soft water. And I think you would absolutely be shocked if you actually took. The tap water readings and realize that down in Austin, you actually don't have hard water. You actually have soft water. When the perception is, oh, it's, oh no, it's super hard. It's really not.
[00:24:46] Eric Knight: Well, that ties back to number eight, I think it was, that don't assume it's the same way it was in the eighties.
[00:24:52] Jarred Morgan: Yeah.
[00:24:52] Eric Knight: Like all these people in Phoenix say, oh, we have really hard water in Phoenix. Well, you would if you didn't have cities treating it. Like if you had well water. Yeah, you do. But how many pools in Scottsdale are on well water? Not many, right? And so we've tested a lot of water in Phoenix all over the valley, and it's always under a hundred.
[00:25:12] Now, there are some exceptions to this. Like I said, well water. But don't just assume that your tap water is always hard. You need to test it. Great points, Kathryn. And finally...
[00:25:22] Jarred Morgan: numero uno.
[00:25:23] Kathryn Varden: Number one.
[00:25:24] Eric Knight: Look at those of you who can't see Kathryn, she's doing this little dance and I want it to continue. So you're going to need to do that one more time for us. And then tell us your top thing that you've learned at Orenda.
1. LSI First, Range Chemistry Second
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[00:25:35] Kathryn Varden: Number one. LSI first, range chemistry second.
[00:25:41] Eric Knight: The heresy.
[00:25:42] Jarred Morgan: Ehhh
[00:25:43] Kathryn Varden: I know.
[00:25:43] Jarred Morgan: Are we going to get in trouble here?
[00:25:47] Eric Knight: Yeah. I know we've published it and we say it repeatedly, but are you getting us in trouble?
[00:25:51] Kathryn Varden: Just saying, I'm a firm believer in this. You guys converted me pretty good.
[00:25:56] Eric Knight: You mean it works?
[00:25:58] Kathryn Varden: It works.
[00:25:58] Eric Knight: It works to focus on LSI? No way.
[00:26:01] Kathryn Varden: Way.
[00:26:02] Eric Knight: Jarred, you're shaking your head. You seem very uncomfortable by this.
[00:26:04] Jarred Morgan: I'm not uncomfortable. I'm just thinking through the emails that I've received this week of people saying, I adopted your method and my pool water has never looked better. This is great. You guys are awesome. And we love hearing those compliments, by the way. I don't think we ever get tired of saying that, and I don't ever get tired of reading it.
[00:26:22] Uh, so yes, thank you. Thank you to the 131 listeners. We appreciate it. And you know, I think we've had a little bit of pushback with this LSI first, range chemistry second approach. And I think everybody needs to understand, there are caveats to this mantra, right?
[00:26:44] We're not saying just, if your LSI is fine, everything else is good, don't worry about it. That is not what we're saying at all. We're saying that just keep your LSI balanced, don't ignore it, and obviously try to keep your other chemistries within certain areas so that you're not. You know, running a pH at 6.8 or running alkalinity at 30. Those are things that we don't recommend. But make sure your water's not aggressive. Make sure it's not oversaturated and scaling up and causing problems for your equipment and your surfaces and all these other things that revolve around your pool. Um, but don't just ignore everything else. Just take this approach. LSI first, range chemistry second.
[00:27:24] Eric Knight: That's right. Every individual factor should be taken into consideration within the context of the LSI. That's what we're saying. So yeah, you don't want these extreme numbers, but it's not just the LSI today, and this is where there's confusion from people. They said, oh, well if you just have these ranges, you can be LSI balanced 24/7. No, you can't. You can be LSI balanced right now in this moment in time. But as we discuss on this show and in all these other teachings we do, the pH is going to naturally rise.
[00:27:53] That's going to change your LSI when you're gone. What then? We care about you being LSI balanced today, and when you come back. You need to know how to contain the pH. And that's why we conflict with some of these ranges because it's within the LSI context that we're trying to keep the water balanced permanently.
[00:28:10] Of course, we care about sanitization, we care about disinfection. All of these things are accounted for in this philosophy that we teach. And it works. Kathryn, have you had customers call you that have made the change, that have found success with what we teach?
[00:28:26] Kathryn Varden: I had one yesterday. I talked with one of my customers in Northern California and they said they had been managing a pool for five years. And, uh, usually this time of year it's turned a little green. And what do you know? This year it hasn't.
[00:28:44] Eric Knight: And that's more on the water quality side. That's not even necessarily water balance.
[00:28:47] Jarred Morgan: But on, on more onto that, Kathryn, real quick. I know you called me yesterday and you told me this, which was awesome. But that company, they just picked one technician to maintain his pools our way, and the other ones were done the other way, right? Is that correct?
[00:29:03] Kathryn Varden: More of the old school way, yes.
[00:29:05] Jarred Morgan: Okay. So this one guy who was tasked with maintaining his pools the Orenda Way...
[00:29:11] Kathryn Varden: yes.
[00:29:12] Jarred Morgan: ...minimized a problem because he didn't do it the old school way. Is that what you're saying?
[00:29:18] Kathryn Varden: That's what I'm saying.
[00:29:19] Jarred Morgan: Yes.
[00:29:19] Eric Knight: Well tell the audience more, Kathryn, tell the audience more. So what was the experiment and what were the results?
[00:29:24] Kathryn Varden: So we started with a scale of metal control in the beginning of the season. We've started managing the phosphates and also the non-living organics and balancing the pool on the LSI.
[00:29:39] Jarred Morgan: I think your experience that you're speaking of is evidence to the fact that, hey, if you're open-minded and you try it, I think you'll be surprised.
Wrap up
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[00:29:46] Eric Knight: Yeah. Well, this is a great top 10, Kathryn. I've learned some things since you've been around. Uh, number one, paper marketing matters to some people. That was a shock, because we don't like it very much. But no, you actually did make some points on that and we'll concede that. Um, not everything can be digital, although most things can be because you can update them better.
[00:30:09] I also learned that other companies care way more about the presentation of their booths. I still don't. I don't think I ever will. But thank you for that, Kathryn. It gives us perspective and we're minimalists, right? Minimalist pool care. Minimalist trade show booth.
[00:30:23] So thank you for that. And um, Jarred, anything you want to add?
[00:30:28] Jarred Morgan: Yes, thank you for your perspective, because it was definitely different from how we did things, we're doing things, and the amount of value added quite honestly, you organized us. Like you, you gave us different thought processes, things that we needed to think about.
[00:30:46] How much you liked Taco Bueno? And we had to go out of our way to make sure you were happy with Taco Bueno. Um,
[00:30:52] Eric Knight: No. Yeah. How can you not be happy with Taco Bueno?
[00:30:54] Jarred Morgan: Yeah, I mean, there's just a lot of things that you changed our perception on because you did, you had that kind of deal with headlights approach when you came to the company. You didn't know anything about water chemistry. So it made us kind of reset how we were doing things and clarifying things a little more.
[00:31:12] And I think that helped us. No doubt. And obviously we wish you nothing but the best in your next endeavor. And I know, and you know, we're going to see each other many, many, many times over the next year. So this isn't goodbye. We just wish you the best.
[00:31:29] Eric Knight: Absolutely. Yeah. You've been our team mom, the paper queen. You elevated our game in a very positive way. Jarred and I speak for the rest of our company, but we all mean this. We will miss you dearly, Kathryn. You are awesome. Thank you for everything.
[00:31:42] Kathryn Varden: Well, thanks for having me. And, uh, a little unknown fact. I was voted in high school, most parental. Of my senior class.
[00:31:54] Eric Knight: Color me shocked.
[00:31:56] Jarred Morgan: This is my, my shocked face.
[00:32:00] Eric Knight: I I am absolutely flabbergasted to hear that, Kathryn. But you did up our game. I can't, you're, you're looking at, what do they call those? Um,
[00:32:14] Kathryn Varden: Super superlatives.
[00:32:15] Eric Knight: Superlatives. Yeah. We're talking about a high school superlatives.
[00:32:18] Kathryn Varden: Oh yeah. You know, there's like most athletic, you know, most likely to succeed. And myself and Alan Couch, we got most parental of our senior class.
[00:32:30] Eric Knight: I am so glad to hear you did not peak in high school. Anything you want to add to the audience before we go?
[00:32:35] Kathryn Varden: Going to miss you guys, but like you were mentioning, we'll still be seeing each other out there in our soap opera industry called The Pool industry.
[00:32:43] Eric Knight: Awesome. Well, this has been the 109th episode of The Rule Your Pool podcast. I'm your co-host Eric Knight. Kathryn was the temporary host in this episode, and Jarred is the third guy who needed to be on here because otherwise we'd feel guilty.
[00:32:56] Jarred Morgan: Thank you.
[00:32:57] Eric Knight: Thank you so much for listening and if you have any questions, reach out. podcast@orendatech.com is the email, and we do have some pretty cool content ideas for this summer. uh, Of course, we got my green pool to experiment with, so we've got a lot of stuff coming down the shoot, but this was really to honor Kathryn, and thank you for everything. Take care.
[00:33:15] Jarred Morgan: Thanks.
[00:33:16] Kathryn Varden: Thank you.