Due to popular request by our listeners, Eric explains what PR-10,000 is, how to use it, and answers frequently asked questions about it. PR-10,000 is Orenda's concentrated phosphate remover product.
00:00 - Intro
00:58 - What is PR-10,000?
01:32 - What does PR-10,000 do in the water?
04:26 - Heavy doses of PR-10,000 are easier when using enzymes, because oils and organics can stick to the dust fallout and make it more difficult to clear the water.
05:31 - How to add PR-10,000
07:07 - Higher doses (special doses) of PR-10,000
10:45 - Frequently Asked Questions
14:57 - Summary. Thanks for listening!
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64. How to use PR-10,000 Phosphate Remover
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[00:00:00] Eric Knight: Okay, we're really doing this episode 64 of the rule, your pool podcast. I'm your host Eric Knight, doing something that we have not been looking forward to. But again, in the last episode, we explained we get a lot of requests about this. So in this episode, we're going to talk about how to use our phosphate remover, PR-10,000. The next episode will be SC-1000. The episode after that will be CV-600 and CV-700 enzymes then CE-Clarifier, and maybe SPA-500 after that.
[00:00:28] We don't like talking about our products and if you've ever taken an Orenda class, you already know that. We don't talk about the products. We talk about chemistry in general. And we hope that you know that's what this podcast is all about.
[00:00:39] But for the sake of those who genuinely want to know how to use our stuff, this is an episode for you. Feel free to skip it. Uh, you know, we're just grateful for you being here. So without further ado, this is episode 64. How to use PR-10,000 phosphate remover.
[00:00:58] Okay, let's start with explaining what this stuff is. PR-10,000, if you've ever used it, has a reputation for being the strongest, most concentrated phosphate remover in the market. We'll let you decide that for yourself when you use it. See how it reacts.
[00:01:32] Basically what happens when you put this product in the water. It has a charge to it and it will find phosphorus compounds, and it will react with them. And it changes their state into a solid. I say it crystallizes them. I don't know that that's technically true, but that's kind of a good visual.
[00:01:50] It basically will change the phosphate and pull it out of solution. And it becomes this really fine white dust. It looks like talcum powder. Like baby powder. And it'll cloud up the water. Because that dust is very light and it's just going to gradually fall to the floor, or it will get pulled through the main drain and get filtered out.
[00:02:14] And one of the big things is, it is going to react with all types of phosphates in your pool. And you may test zero phosphates. In fact, it often happens that a phosphate test kit will show, "oh, there aren't any phosphates" or it's very, very low in this water. And yet, you put a cap full of PR-10,000 in the pool, and it starts clouding up.
[00:02:35] Well clearly there's something in there. And this is especially true on hazy pools that might be starting to turn green or something like that. But it can happen in any pool. So the foolproof way to know if you actually have phosphates in the water is do the red cap test. The red cap because PR-10,000 has a red cap.
[00:02:55] You don't need a lot, just put a few drops in the pool and see if it reacts. You can also do this in a bucket similar to a white bucket test. Although this is going to cloud up white. So you wouldn't really see the contrast in a white bucket. But the concept's the same, use a very small amount to diagnose if there's something worth treating in the water.
[00:03:12] So, in this procedure, you're definitely going to want to have a measuring cup. You don't want to just pour this stuff in. It's expensive. It's very concentrated. You want to make sure you're not overdosing this pool. Use a measuring cup, just like you would for muriatic acid.
[00:03:29] Now, if you are in the service business and you are adding PR-10,000 to a whole bunch of pools each day, or, you know, once a month, whatever it is for you, a lot of people will put that in their own sprayer bottle. We cannot endorse this because of the NSF. When we package things, they have to be in the bottles with our labels. But once you own the product, you can really do what you want with it. As long as you know, what's in the bottle. And broadcasting it across the surface is not that bad of an idea.
[00:03:55] Filters will capture this dust. Especially DE filters. So you have to be careful if you're going to treat it heavily. That if you have a DE filter, uh, It could build up the pressure enough to crush the grids if you're not careful. So when you treat with PR-10,000, you want to make sure that you are scheduling it (on a DE pool), when you can come back the next day and clean that filter. If you're going to run circulation and some people won't because they're going to treat it heavily and you could just let gravity do the work for you.
[00:04:26] As I said in the last episode on the purge. If it's a heavily loaded pool, you do not want to just purge a pool with PR-10,000 if you're not also purging with enzymes or using enzymes normally. And the reason for that is the oils will rise and they'll stick to this dust. We actually see it very often. They'll stick to the dust and the dust doesn't fall very fast because the oils are trying to float and the dust is trying to fall and they kind of stay suspended for a lot longer.
[00:04:53] Whereas if you're using enzymes, those oils will be broken down and the dust can fall a lot faster. So you can clear a pool much easier. Another way you can do this is with CE-Clarifier, which will actually coagulate that dust and help it sink even faster with the added benefit of some enzymes in that too.
[00:05:08] So it's just kind of a preference on how you want to do it. Some customers of ours will have two sprayer bottles. One is PR-10,000 and the other is CE-Clarifier, and they just spray the clarifier on top of the cloud as soon as it starts forming. So they'll spray in the PR-10,000 and then with the other hand, they'll spray on the clarifier and call it good. It's up to you.
[00:05:31] The most important thing is not how you get the product into the water. It's how you dose the product. This is a very concentrated product here. You could hit a pool really, really hard and overdo it.
[00:05:43] And it's going to stay cloudier for longer, so you don't want to overdo it. You also do not want to put PR-10,000 into a skimmer. You want it to be activated out in the water. It will attract phosphates to it. It will find the phosphates. Even if you pour it in one spot, now we recommend. Kind of arm's length pouring it around the perimeter of the pool, but never pour it into a skimmer.
[00:06:07] You do not want this stuff stuck in your filter, waiting for water to come through it. Let it do its work. Kind of like, let the tool do its work. Let the PR-10,000 do its thing. It will do its job. And it's a one and done there's no residual. It will find everything that it can, it'll precipitate everything that it can, and that stuff will fall. And it's over.
[00:06:27] Okay, so let's talk about dosing here. Um, We sell this in eight ounce bottles for retail stores. So if you're a homeowner listening to this, this is probably the most likely size that you would see is an eight ounce.
[00:06:39] An eight ounce bottle will roughly treat a standard 10,000 gallon pool to about 2,500 parts per billion. So the average dose is going to be no more than eight ounces per 10,000 gallons. Try not to go over eight ounces per 10,000 gallons on a normal treatment.
[00:06:56] On a commercial pool, we actually have it on the Orenda calculator to do four ounces. Especially if you have a DE filter, you do not want to use PR-10,000 too heavily.
[00:07:07] And then there's the higher doses. So an example of a higher dose would be if you are trying to remediate an issue. Maybe the water is turning green on you, or it's getting really cloudy and murky and you just need to break the water. We talked about this in the last episode of how to purge a pool. That deep herbal cleanse. How do we reset it?
[00:07:27] How do we get things out that chlorine can not get out very efficiently? Or in the case of phosphates, cannot get out at all. How do we do that? Well, um, These are not of course scientific terms, but we have a process that's been nicknamed the "Orenda Bomb".
[00:07:44] And that Orenda bomb is a heavier dose of PR-10,000 combined with an enzyme purge. So the purge dose of enzymes, as we said in the last one is one quart per 10,000 gallons, no matter what. But PR-10,000, usually we don't want you going over eight ounces per 10,000 gallons at a time. But not in the Orenda bomb. That's more like 24 to 32 ounces.
[00:08:06] It could be as much as a quart per 10,000 gallons, like during the green pool cleanup process. I can't think of a process, other than white fly in south Florida, that you would need more than one quart per 10,000 gallons of PR-10,000.
[00:08:24] At least I don't. Yeah, I can't think of anything off the top of my head. The green pool cleanup and the Orenda bomb are pretty much the heaviest you're ever going to hit your pool. And you're going to put it in the pool around the perimeter, do not put it in the skimmer, like I said.
[00:08:38] Now beyond the green pool cleanup and the Orenda bomb, there are also a few other doses and we have them listed in our procedure for how to use PR-10,000.
[00:08:48] If you are trying to super chlorinate your pool, like you have to shock it. If that's the case, you probably want eight, maybe even up to 16 ounces of PR-10,000 to supplement your chlorine.
[00:09:00] Not because you necessarily need it. Because I don't know what your contaminants are, but this product works really well in tandem with chlorine. So it's going to boost it kind of. And I won't get into all the details of it, but it works very well as a one, two punch with chlorine. It works even better as a part of a 1, 2, 3 punch with enzymes. We discussed that just a moment ago, that if you're going to hit it hard with PR-10,000, enzymes are going to help you clear that water faster, because it gets the oils out of the way.
[00:09:29] But we also have a special procedure for purging filters. So if you have a sand filter and you have to replace the sand or even glass media or whatever it is, You may not need to do that. It could be that your sand is just fouled from years and years of organic material that's stuck and embedded into the filter.
[00:09:49] And we go into commercial filters that are just putrid. I mean, absolutely overloaded. Oily, greasy, just awful. Literally, I have a picture of Harold, our owner, opening up a commercial filter and the fumes coming out and hitting him. The light was just right. That you could actually see the fumes coming out of that filter.
[00:10:10] It's disgusting. But if you're going to do that, you've got to use PR-10,000 in tandem with CV-600 or 700 enzymes at a four to one ratio. Four parts enzyme to one part PR.
[00:10:24] So based on a standard commercial TR-140 sized filter. That would be one quart of enzyme and eight ounces of PR-10,000. We have that procedure in the app. We have that procedure in the website as well. So just kind of follow along, watch the video. It's pretty easy to do. But that would be another use for PR-10,000.
[00:10:45] So let's wrap up. Let's go through the most frequently asked questions that we get about this. And, uh, we'll wrap this episode up nice and quick.
[00:10:54] Okay. The first question, we get a lot. Why does it cloud the water? As I explained earlier. The reason that happens is because PR-10,000 is reacting with phosphorus compounds and changing their state. It's pulling them into a solid and that solid precipitates out of solution and becomes white dust. What you're seeing is that process unfolding and it happens like immediately within seconds.
[00:11:18] So that's what the cloud is all about. It's actually just pulling it out of solution, converting it to this white dust, which is inert and harmless, and it will fall. So that's why clouds.
[00:11:28] How long is it safe to swim after using PR-10,000? Or how long do I have to wait until it is safe to swim?
[00:11:37] Uh, the first thing is until the water is clear enough to see the main drain. All of our products are NSF 50 certified. So it's non-toxic non-hazardous if you used it as directed. Um, but really from a safety perspective, water clarity is what matters because this can cloud up a pool so much that you can't see the bottom.
[00:11:56] And God forbid, someone gets stuck down there or something like that. So it's really a clarity issue. It is not a toxicity issue. So we recommend that when you can see the main drain at the bottom of the pool. Have at it, you can swim again.
[00:12:08] Okay, next question. Does PR-10,000 leave behind a residual? No. It does not leave behind a residual. It reacts on contact. Pretty much one and done. And it will precipitate out as dust when it's combined to phosphate. And it gets either filtered out or vacuumed out of the pool. That's how you remove phosphates. So no residual on PR.
[00:12:30] Next question. How does PR-10,000 compare to CV-700? Because CV-700 enzymes has a phosphate remover in it. We get this question a lot. The phosphate remover in CV-700 is not PR-10,000. It is nowhere close to the strength of PR-10,000. Is a much weaker phosphate remover, but it's stable enough to be in a product with enzymes.
[00:12:53] CV-700 is designed to maintain levels of phosphate so they don't creep up on you and get out of control. It'll gradually lower them, but nowhere near the strength of PR-10,000. PR is used to lower phosphate levels quickly. Pretty much immediately. So if you've got high levels, PR is the way to go.
[00:13:15] So there's, they're just two completely different products, CV-700 is basically an enzyme product. Not a phosphate remover. It just has a little in there kind of as a bonus. Kind of like CE-Clarifier is really a clarifier that has a little bit of enzyme in it. It's not designed to be a primary enzyme.
[00:13:33] Okay. What else can PR-10,000 be used for? Um, we, you know, we get creative with it, honestly. We've used it to clean up scum lines. We've used it to clean calcification out of commercial filters. And if you go into the app and go to procedures and type in PR, you'll see this article. In fact, we're going to embed this podcast episode in that procedure. And you'll see at the bottom there's videos of us taking it on a rag and cleaning up years and years of Cal hypo gunk, basically on the inside of a commercial filter. And it comes right off. So it's a very powerful chemical for a lot of different things.
[00:14:09] But what we really use it for is supplementing chlorine. And being that one, two punch with chlorine or 1, 2, 3 punch with enzymes. Cleaning filters, cleaning up pools, and primarily, of course, removing phosphates.
[00:14:22] Uh, last few questions. Can it be used with the chlorine shock? Yes. I've already said that it's a great tandem with a chlorine shock and there is no limit to how high that chlorine goes. It'll still work.
[00:14:32] Not that you would shock over 20 parts per million of chlorine, but you definitely could. It will not hurt. PR, PR will work just fine.
[00:14:40] Um, what's the shelf life of PR-10,000? Indefinite. Just don't let it freeze. If it doesn't freeze, it could be over a hundred years and it will work just fine.
[00:14:50] And then can PR be used in saltwater pools? Yes. And can it be used in vinyl liner and fiberglass pools? Yes, it can.
[00:14:57] So I know this was not really a very well structured podcast episode. I'm just basically getting through the frequently asked questions and I hope it helps explain what PR is. How it should be used. And if you have any questions, reach out to us podcast@orendatech.com or info@orendatech.com if you want it to go to the entire company, not just me.
[00:15:21] And we are happy to help you. So, thank you all. This is a popular product. We get a lot of questions about it. I do hope this helps and again, sorry for putting in infomercials into our podcast, but we felt like this was a good way to answer the questions that we just keep getting so we can just refer people to this in the future. So thanks for putting up with it and we will see you in the next episode. Take care everyone.