Eric and Jarred visit with people while sitting at our trade show booth in Atlantic City at the 2024 Northeast Pool and Spa Show.
00:00 - Introduction
00:16 - Christian Shirilla, River Pools
08:13 - Jarred's amnesia
08:44 - Terry Arko, HASA
14:42 - Jonathan Heller, MikvahTech
24:19 - Kevin Cooley, Goudy Pools
32:36 - Miguel Chavez, Orenda
38:27 - Closing
133. From the booth at the 2024 Pool & Spa Show in Atlantic City
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[00:00:00] Eric Knight: Hey everybody, welcome to the 2024 trade show. You're going to see how we record the Rule Your Pool podcast here and we honestly have no idea what we're going to talk about.
[00:00:09] Jarred Morgan: We're going to try something new today.
[00:00:11] Eric Knight: Episode 133 coming to you live from the Northeast pool and spa show. Let's go.
Christian Shirilla - River Pools / Thursday Pools
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[00:00:16] Eric Knight: So we have a guest here from River Pools, now Thursday Pools, Christian Shirilla, is that correct?
[00:00:43] Christian Shirilla: That's it.
[00:00:44] Eric Knight: Christian, welcome. I've seen you on a lot of YouTube videos when I was doing a bunch of fiberglass research for our website. Talking about issues that we've seen. Almost every YouTube video that I could find during that research process had your face on it. And I've got to say it's a nice change from seeing my face on YouTube. and Jarred would also agree.
[00:00:59] Jarred Morgan: Surely not my face. I don't like seeing my face. But I've heard a lot about Christian and I've heard a lot about River and Thursday pools, which is pretty exciting because I hate to break it to everybody here, but we are not fiberglass guys.
[00:01:12] I know it's shocking, but
[00:01:14] Eric Knight: We're just water guys.
[00:01:14] Jarred Morgan: We like to rely on experts in those fields to get our answers and lean on heavily.
[00:01:19] Eric Knight: So Christian, welcome to the Rule Your Pool podcast.
[00:01:21] Christian Shirilla: Thanks for having me fellas. Jarred I have to say I think you are the star of the show and I'm proud to be the second listener. How many listeners are you guys up to now?
[00:01:30] Eric Knight: Well, after this one, we're gonna lose a few, I'll tell you that much.
[00:01:34] Jarred Morgan: True. I'd say thank you, but my cat Blue and now Scarlet might have something to say about that.
[00:01:40] Eric Knight: Yeah, they are the stars of the show.
[00:01:41] Jarred Morgan: You know people like seeing them. I get it all the time. So we're here to talk a little bit of fiberglass.
[00:01:46] Christian Shirilla: Let's do it.
[00:01:47] Jarred Morgan: Basically, you are recommending your customers use our app, correct?
[00:01:52] Christian Shirilla: Well first of all, we're fiberglass guys. We're not water chemistry experts, right? We make the pool. And the dealers install the pool. Okay. Right? So, but when it comes to pool chemistry, there's lots of information out there. And we do point customers your way because you guys have a, you have a way of breaking down a very complex topic into, uh, a consumable manner. So that the customer can actually understand what's going on with their pool to protect that finish and enjoy swimming in it.
[00:02:22] Eric Knight: I would say the same thing about you and your YouTube videos, that I learned more about fiberglass in like, you know, four minute chunks. Things like flexion and what is a gel coat? How does a gel coat actually get applied? It's just great, great work with that. Obviously we spent a lot of time doing video marketing as well.
[00:02:37] And we're glad to have you here because we went up, Joe and I actually, Jarred was not invited. We didn't tell him about it.
[00:02:43] Jarred Morgan: Unfortunately, I'm pretty disappointed I wasn't invited.
[00:02:45] Christian Shirilla: You heard about it.
[00:02:46] Jarred Morgan: I heard it was awesome.
[00:02:47] Eric Knight: We went to your plant in Fortville, Indiana.
[00:02:50] Christian Shirilla: It was a great meeting.
[00:02:50] Eric Knight: It was incredible. I mean, this building is just massive. And the amount of technology involved with it and all the things that you and your company and Bill have learned over all the years of fiberglass manufacturing, it's just insane.
[00:03:04] The productivity that can happen in a building like that. So tell us a little bit about how River Pools was and now that you're part of Thursday Pools, what does the future look like for your company?
[00:03:12] Christian Shirilla: Yeah. Uh, so the plant itself is amazing. And it feels like every time I head up there to visit, it's expanding once more. But just to give everybody sort of a background here, the two brands were separate companies at one point. You had River, who focused heavily on consumer education and built its name around that. You had Thursday, which had unparalleled manufacturing capabilities and skills. And then the merger, which happened a couple years ago, right around the time of COVID really brought What I view is two powerhouses together, right? Two powerhouses in their own right.
[00:03:47] And so now both brands are owned by Thursday Pools, LLC. So if you think of Toyota and Lexus, right?
[00:03:54] Eric Knight: Right. Two brands under the same company.
[00:03:56] Two brands under the same company. That's what's going on now.
[00:03:59] Jarred Morgan: Do y'all fight over which one's the Lexus?
[00:04:01] Christian Shirilla: Ha, ha, ha. No, it's actually pretty clear. I, I think the River brand leads more towards Toyota and the adventurous side of things, right?
[00:04:08] Jarred Morgan: Very nice.
[00:04:08] Christian Shirilla: We know who we are. But The two brands are completely different from each other. Different products, same manufacturing quality and process. But the models are different, the brand is completely different in the eyes of the consumer.
[00:04:21] Eric Knight: Well hold on, you say they're different products. Now the mold shapes are slightly different, right?
[00:04:25] Christian Shirilla: The molds are different.
[00:04:26] Eric Knight: But they're still fiberglass, what makes them different?
[00:04:28] Christian Shirilla: Yeah, so the two brands do not share molds. So you're not going to find a mold or a model on the River Pools brand and then find it on the Thursday Pools brand with a different name.
[00:04:37] Eric Knight: Got it. But it's the same fiberglass materials, same gel coat.
[00:04:40] Christian Shirilla: Same manufacturing process, same manufacturing materials.
[00:04:44] Eric Knight: Cool. Well, it kind of reminds us of HASA and Orenda. We're retaining our brand. We were a lot smaller company. And I remember going up there and just the sheer manufacturing power that we saw in that warehouse. It's just unbelievable.
[00:04:57] And hearing what it was like before. It's just It's fascinating to see what can happen when you actually put the horsepower behind a brand like River. So congratulations on that.
[00:05:06] Christian Shirilla: Thank you.
[00:05:07] Eric Knight: How is this show for you guys? I mean, who shows up here that is either buying your stuff or maybe you already have an established set of dealers? I don't even know.
[00:05:14] Christian Shirilla: Yeah. So we've got a base of dealers and we've got some franchisees around the country. All are the installers of the products we make. We're here to meet and greet with them. We're here to find more installers that want to sell and install fiberglass pools that we make.
[00:05:29] And the show's been good so far. it seems to me like the foot traffic is up. The show floor feels a lot bigger. We've got another day and a half to go.
[00:05:37] Eric Knight: One of the things that we've done recently, which is how we met, is, talking about that water is water regardless of the vessel. Now there's different ways that water can interact with the vessel. But I am blown away by the amount of research and development that I saw in that factory. It's unbelievable.
[00:05:52] It's like a whole laboratory of just unparalleled fiberglass knowledge that I didn't even know existed. So I look forward to learning a lot more from you. I look forward to being up there for your event. What is it, February or something?
[00:06:03] Christian Shirilla: Yeah, you're coming up next month.
[00:06:04] Eric Knight: Yep, next month I'll be there. I'm looking forward to that. It should be nice, warm, and balmy at the time in Fortville, Indiana.
[00:06:10] Christian Shirilla: Sure it will be.
[00:06:11] Jarred Morgan: I do have a question on a call and email that I get regularly, I would say.
[00:06:16] Christian Shirilla: Alright.
[00:06:17] Jarred Morgan: A customer calls me and says, I have scale in my pool, I've added this, I've kept things balanced, but it's not going away. And I said, well, it could be your gelcoat. How does a customer remedy a gelcoat problem, or is there a remedy?
[00:06:34] Christian Shirilla: Well, it really depends on what caused the gelcoat issue, right? Is it something that's sticking to it? Or was the gelcoat actually bleached out? And both of those situations can happen. This really leans into the educational material you guys put out there.
[00:06:49] Is the surface etched, or is something adhering to it?
[00:06:52] Jarred Morgan: Let's assume it's not adhering and that it's actually a breakdown of the actual gel coat, so is that permanent damage? And if so, is there a fix? Or do you just have to...
[00:07:01] Christian Shirilla: It would be permanent damage. And it can be fixed. There are a number of products out there that are not gel coat that can be applied. There are new products being developed and tested now that are re-coat materials much like paint, but they're not, it's not a gel coat product. Uh, so there are solutions if you encounter this with your fiberglass pool.
[00:07:22] Jarred Morgan: And again, we're not fiberglass guys, don't want to pretend to be, but I at least want to know where I can go to find an answer. Because like I said, I'm always like, well, I don't know because if it's your gel coat, I don't know where to call. I say call your manufacturer, but I just want to make sure that if I do that, there's actually going to be a real answer there.
[00:07:38] Christian Shirilla: Yeah. Well, we would always say that you should call the manufacturer of your pool if you have an issue. They can help diagnose what's going on. And in the case of a River or a Thursday Pools, our warranty department is up to date with the latest products that are available and can help guide you towards the best solution for you, whatever that may be.
[00:07:59] Eric Knight: Always diagnose you before you prescribe.
[00:08:01] Christian Shirilla: Absolutely.
[00:08:02] Eric Knight: That's a good thing. Well, I was very impressed. I appreciate you being here and look forward to working more with you guys.
[00:08:07] Christian Shirilla: Yeah. Eric, Jarred. Awesome. Good to meet you man. Thanks guys.
[00:08:09] Eric Knight: Christian. Have a good one. Enjoy the rest of the show.
Jarred's amnesia
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[00:08:13] Jarred Morgan: Awesome, thank you. We'll hang out later. Yeah, we'll see you guys. You want to do a quick intro?
[00:08:18] Eric Knight: Uh, we just did an intro.
[00:08:19] Jarred Morgan: No we didn't.
[00:08:19] Eric Knight: We just did an intro. What do you mean?
[00:08:22] Jarred Morgan: An intro for this episode?
[00:08:23] Eric Knight: You don't even listen to the episode you're actively recording?
[00:08:26] Jarred Morgan: You don't want to do an intro for the episode?
[00:08:28] Eric Knight: I hope you're still recording though. Listen, he's standing right here. He's been holding a microphone. We just did an intro before Christian sat down.
[00:08:34] And you're telling me you didn't even hear that.
[00:08:36] Jarred Morgan: Oh, crap. Then we need to start before Christian showed up. Act like Christian wasn't even here yet.
[00:08:40] Eric Knight: I'm not editing this out, Jarred.
[00:08:42] Jarred Morgan: We can slice it and move it.
Terry Arko - HASA
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[00:08:44] Eric Knight: Not doing it. Let's get somebody else to talk to, though. Hey, Terry Arko!
[00:08:49] Terry!
[00:08:52] Have a seat, my man. We're already rolling. Hello.
[00:08:55] Terry Arko: Yes, we are.
[00:08:56] Eric Knight: Do you have any idea what we're about to talk about?
[00:08:58] Terry Arko: Um I have no idea whatsoever.
[00:09:01] Jarred Morgan: So what I'm going to say is we are completely screwed up right now because we're arguing over the intros and splicing stuff together. And Eric's just making me mad. So I'm sorry you walked in at a time where there's a little tension between us right now.
[00:09:14] Terry Arko: So it's all right. It's all right.
[00:09:15] Eric Knight: Here's the thing. Jarred just tried in the last 90 seconds to become the host of the Rule Your Pool podcast.
[00:09:21] Terry Arko: Okay.
[00:09:21] Jarred Morgan: I felt like I was doing a good job.
[00:09:23] Eric Knight: It's not going well.
[00:09:24] Terry Arko: It seems like I got to be the buffer.
[00:09:25] Jarred Morgan: Thank you.
[00:09:26] Terry Arko: I'm the total alkalinity.
[00:09:28] Eric Knight: Yeah. Yeah. There you go.
[00:09:29] Terry Arko: Between you two guys.
[00:09:30] Eric Knight: How are you enjoying this show?
[00:09:31] Terry Arko: This has been the first time in a few years since the pandemic and all that that I've been here. But I used to come here a lot before then.
[00:09:38] Eric Knight: The question is why?
[00:09:39] Terry Arko: The show is tremendous. It's amazing. The engagement of people that are here, the numbers of people that show up. And they're serious.
[00:09:48] They want to get educated. Um, and that's what makes this show. And I mean, you know, what's going on here on the show floor as well. I mean, it's uh, you know, there's engagement, there's people that are interested. The big players are here. The people that are serious are here. All the way around. It's a great show.
[00:10:05] Eric Knight: Big classrooms, lots of education. I'm always impressed by that. Because most shows, I mean they have classes, don't get me wrong. It's hard to put 300 people in a room, and yet this show does it routinely.
[00:10:15] Terry Arko: They do it very well. Very well.
[00:10:16] Jarred Morgan: Terry, you taught a class this morning. Eric's teaching a class. Miguel's teaching classes. So we have multiple classes that we teach at this show. And quite honestly, I think we could all agree that's where we get the most satisfaction.
[00:10:28] Terry Arko: Yes.
[00:10:28] Jarred Morgan: Because we have influence on how people do things. And hopefully they're educating themselves clearly. And we're making them better. And that's why we do what we do.
[00:10:37] Terry Arko: With the multiple number of classes they have, the great thing about it is they're still all relatively full.
[00:10:43] Eric Knight: Yeah.
[00:10:44] Terry Arko: You know, so you're never talking to a smaller audience. You've got a good audience, you've got a good number of people. and that just makes it all, that much better.
[00:10:50] Eric Knight: Yeah, but can you imagine if Jarred signed up to teach a class that nobody would show up.
[00:10:55] Jarred Morgan: Hold on.
[00:10:55] Terry Arko: See? That might be.
[00:10:56] Jarred Morgan: Hold on, brother.
[00:10:57] Terry Arko: That might change things. I don't know.
[00:10:58] Jarred Morgan: Guess who's teaching a class at the Southwest Pool and Spa Show.
[00:11:01] Terry Arko: That's true. He is.
[00:11:03] Eric Knight: You're teaching a class? They let you do that?
[00:11:04] Jarred Morgan: He is. So I'm teaching it with Ryan Rickaby, our sales manager there. And I'm co teaching it with him. And, uh, we haven't prepared for it one bit.
[00:11:14] Eric Knight: That doesn't surprise me. I can't remember the last time that we prepared for a podcast.
[00:11:18] Jarred Morgan: So I went into your class an hour ago to try and get some pointers for, maybe I want to do this in our class, and I couldn't stomach it anymore. I had to walk out.
[00:11:25] Eric Knight: I know. I saw that. I know. You didn't, you didn't last eight minutes.
[00:11:28] Jarred Morgan: Terry lasted the entire time though.
[00:11:30] Eric Knight: What were your thoughts of the class?
[00:11:32] Jarred Morgan: It was a class that we, that I haven't heard yet, that it was, honestly, the title was great. And I think the content is great, the teacher on the other hand, not so great.
[00:11:41] Eric Knight: What were your thoughts, Terry?
[00:11:43] Terry Arko: I thought it was great from the standpoint of, you come here and it's kind of, everything's technical, chemistry, equipment, all that sort of thing that everybody gets overwhelmed with, I think.
[00:11:54] Um, and you were teaching about how to be a better business person. How to be a better service person. Customer service. How to be a better person overall. And I thought you had some really good points. The main thing that came out of it that I thought was really good was the whole idea of engaging the customer in what you do.
[00:12:11] Taking them poolside. Walking them through, uh, talking about maybe there's something different or special that you as a service company are going to provide them, and you talk to them about that, you bring that kind of value and that service, you can, you can get paid what you're worth.
[00:12:28] Eric Knight: Yeah. The class was stop servicing pools, start servicing people. The message is if we are only doing what everyone else does, we become a commodity. A commodity is something that is indistinguishable primarily from other services, at least to the customer.
[00:12:42] Now we may think we have differences, but if the customer doesn't see them, they're irrelevant. Right? So how do we not be a commodity? And I bring up things like, let chlorine be the commodity so you don't have to be. You can always rely on it to do what it does. Our chemical is the same thing.
[00:12:56] What I'm curious to see, Terry, since this is your first show with us out of the HASA territory. My question is, in the interactions with the customers who have come up to our booth, what is your overall impression of how they view the Orenda brand?
[00:13:10] Terry Arko: Very positive on the Orenda, and in the classes, I saw that too. There are lots of people there that I know are using your products.
[00:13:17] Eric Knight: In California they hate us, but
[00:13:19] Terry Arko: But it seems like you guys have very solid relationships with people here. And that's definitely shown in coming out and things that people have said. People have approached me, even without you guys being around, and they found out that we're connected. And they say they really like Orenda. They like the The support that they get. You talked about having your back in that class.
[00:13:41] Eric Knight: Yeah, absolutely.
[00:13:42] Terry Arko: People really believe that Orenda has their back. So, um, at least the people that talked to me. Um, I had people in my class yesterday. I did an all day pool chemistry training institute class. And several of them that knew, again, that we were connected, uh, mentioned that. Um, and that they were, uh, the whole thing, the four pillars, they were involved with that, Orenda Academy, and that that was really a solid thing.
[00:14:05] Eric Knight: Well, before you go here, we have more guests to sit down. I'm really looking forward to revamping our educational program, our curriculum, and really dialing in not only the things that Bob Lowry left behind with his legacy, but revamping it, revitalizing it. Like, let's make sure that it's all cohesive because there are a lot of different opinions and let's get to the facts of it, and I think we can create something great.
[00:14:28] And I'm really looking forward to doing that with you.
[00:14:30] Terry Arko: Absolutely.
[00:14:30] Eric Knight: In the next few months, really.
[00:14:31] Terry Arko: Yeah. I'm looking forward to it too. You know, I always say, reinvent yourself, tomorrow you want to be a better version of yourself than you were today. Absolutely. And that's what we're heading towards. Thanks you guys. Absolutely.
[00:14:40] Eric Knight: Okay, you can pause that. We've got to find someone else to talk to.
Jonathan Heller - Mikvah Tech
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[00:14:42] Terry Arko: Are you rolling? Jonathan Heller, all the way from Israel, thank you for being back. I've seen you here for the past three or four years in a row? Is that right?
[00:14:53] Jarred Morgan: It could be more than that.
[00:14:54] Jonathan Heller: I think this is my seventh year.
[00:14:54] We've seen them.
[00:14:55] Eric Knight: When did we first start talking? Well, it had to be pre COVID, right?
[00:14:58] Jonathan Heller: Yeah. So yeah, I'm talking about seven years ago. I think it was the first time I actually met you guys.
[00:15:04] Eric Knight: Well, I remember you came to us with the Mikvahs, which I did not know what they were. How would you describe a Mikvah?
[00:15:10] Jonathan Heller: So Mikvah is a Jewish ritual bath. You fill up a bath with a few thousand gallons of natural rainwater, aquifer, whatever it's going to be, they fill it up, it has to be natural water. And then people go inside that water for purity reasons.
[00:15:25] They go in for just a few seconds, actually, before they pray. Before there's a whole bunch of different reasons, uh, in Judaism. And every single Jewish center has to have a Mikvah. It's the first thing you have to build, actually. The first thing a Jewish community has to build before a synagogue is a Mikvah.
[00:15:42] You're allowed to sell a synagogue to fund building a Mikvah, just to understand how important it is.
[00:15:47] Eric Knight: That's how important it is. So if I, if I'm in the faith, how often am I actually using this mikvah? Every day? Is it once a week?
[00:15:55] Jonathan Heller: So different sects within Judaism go on different, uh, I mean, let's say the Hasidim.
[00:16:00] There's a lot of Hasidim, which are more the ultra, ultra Orthodox, they go every single day before they pray. So every male above the age of 13 has to go on a daily basis until the day he dies before he prays. So, as you can imagine, there's a lot of these mikvahs that are popping up. It's a growing demographic, and that's what we do.
[00:16:19] So we develop and provide solutions for purifying that water, which is far more complicated, because there's all these restrictions from the Jewish law.
[00:16:27] Jarred Morgan: What are the restrictions that go into building a Mikvah that we don't understand?
[00:16:32] Jonathan Heller: About like 50 books worth, if you want to have a picture of them, it's very complex.
[00:16:37] Eric Knight: It's very complex because you can't disinfect it with chlorine, right?
[00:16:41] Jonathan Heller: No, so you can use chlorine. The harder process is actually the filtration. Because you're not allowed to remove the water from that body of the ritual bath. So you're not allowed to take the water out.
[00:16:52] So you have to purify. So all of our systems actually, which are approved by the Israeli Chief Rabbinate, and go through I mean a whole slew of different Rabbis. The water never leaves the ritual bath. So all the water has to be purified within that body of water.
[00:17:06] Eric Knight: This is thousands of years old. This ritual.
[00:17:08] Jonathan Heller: Yeah.
[00:17:09] Eric Knight: Now we have technology with circulation systems and all that.
[00:17:12] Jonathan Heller: 100%.
[00:17:12] Eric Knight: You still have to obey. I mean, it's a fascinating issue. And I remember you put us in touch with some people here many years ago. And Harold and I went into Brooklyn and went into several of these synagogues and saw these for the first time.
[00:17:24] They're so different from anything I've ever seen. Boy, was there a lot of soap and shampoo on the wall of all these bather products. And you could just see the oils on the top of the water. We did put enzymes in one of them. Oh my gosh did it bubble up. I still have photos. And some of the challenges, like, you have to get very creative because you cannot do conventional water treatment for something that otherwise could be easily treatable. But because you're in this situation where you have to use that water in a certain way, your hands are somewhat tied. Is that a fair statement?
[00:17:52] Jonathan Heller: That's correct. That's 100 percent correct. And everything that you'd use in a standard situation becomes complicated, and it has to be actually approved by different Rabbis. There's so many different intricacies that have to be analyzed.
[00:18:06] Eric Knight: So then there's your business. Yeah. Your business, I mean, I can tell you're a smart guy, unlike Jarred, and you have a lot of ideas on how to do it.
[00:18:13] Jonathan Heller: I mean, he's a genius. He's just brilliant.
[00:18:16] Jarred Morgan: I'm just a guy, don't give Eric that much credit.
[00:18:18] Eric Knight: Uh, but you're doing a lot of technology. Give us, I mean, you don't have, It's published to the world. We have at least 206 listeners now, we think, we think.
[00:18:27] Jonathan Heller: Well, when we finish, I'm going to sign up. I'll be 207.
[00:18:30] Eric Knight: Oh, sweet. Good. I've never heard our podcast. That's funny because Jarred hasn't either.
[00:18:33] Jarred Morgan: No, no. I listen to probably two or three episodes.
[00:18:37] Eric Knight: Whatever, Jarred.
[00:18:38] Jonathan Heller: They're really great, man.
[00:18:38] Eric Knight: So what does your company actually do?
[00:18:40] Jonathan Heller: My company is called Mikva Tech. And we have various solutions. Let me just give you a little bit of a rundown.
[00:18:46] These Mikvas, these ritual baths, can range from a private one in a person's house, where he himself is going to use it every morning before he prays, to the largest one in the world is actually here in the US where they have about 5,000 people per day in a few of these pools.
[00:19:00] Jarred Morgan: Where is that one?
[00:19:01] Jonathan Heller: It's near Muncie, in upstate New York. Well, not upstate, but New York. New York. Compared to New York, yeah. Um, and they have very high bather loads and a very, very small volume of water.
[00:19:13] Eric Knight: What kind of volumes are we talking? You can go metric if you want.
[00:19:15] Jonathan Heller: So that particular Mikvah has six ritual baths. The largest of it's about 50 cube, which is the largest one,
[00:19:23] it's about 13,000 gallons, maybe something like that. They range from about 1,000 gallons to, that would be probably one among the largest in the world. And you'd have to clean that water.
[00:19:34] Remember those 5,000 people would be there within a few hours.
[00:19:38] Jarred Morgan: So, 5,000 people in
[00:19:39] Jonathan Heller: Well, they have six of those.
[00:19:41] Jarred Morgan: Okay.
[00:19:41] Jonathan Heller: They have six of those.
[00:19:42] Eric Knight: That's still, I mean, you divide that up, almost 1,000 people a day in a 13,000 gallon pool.
[00:19:46] Jonathan Heller: Right, so our, our systems are, are very, very robust, very strong. They're measured, I mean, we get at least two to three turnovers per hour, at least.
[00:19:57] Eric Knight: Think about that for a second, Jarred? Because swim schools here are about the densest bather load that we have.
[00:20:01] Jarred Morgan: For sure.
[00:20:02] Eric Knight: Right, because you have about, you know, 700 to 1300 kids a week. Now that's a week in about 25 to 40,000 gallons. So let's say 30,000 gallons. A thousand people. Just do the math on that. You have a multiplier more of a bather load. Now they're not in there very long, but they are wearing bather products because I remember being in some of these, uh, basements of these synagogues and there's like all these shampoos and soaps on the wall and you can just see it.
[00:20:29] It's all over the tile. So what does your technology do about it?
[00:20:33] Jonathan Heller: Well, just to, there's a little bit more of a, I mean, we want you to hear the really intense before the holidays, we have a client who has about eight of those pools and he has, he had over 25, 000 people on one day, one afternoon, morning and afternoon before one of the holidays. And he only knows that number because he ran out of towels. And they had to, they brought towels from all over the place and they ran out of towels and it was just like, oh. Now you have to filter that water And disinfect that water and deal with that water within, you know, a morning and afternoon for many thousands.
[00:21:05] Now, these are extreme situations. The vast majority of ritual vets are not like this. But yes, it's far more demanding, far more complicated. And that's why, uh, I love you guys. Because you guys give me the best advice on, you know, the best chemicals and what to use. And that's how we've gotten friends over the years.
[00:21:22] Eric Knight: Yeah, we try.
[00:21:23] Jarred Morgan: I'm glad you mentioned that specifically because we give you advice. We don't really have a business relationship here at all.
[00:21:29] Jonathan Heller: That's true. That's very important for me to say.
[00:21:31] Jarred Morgan: You're not buying anything from us.
[00:21:32] Jonathan Heller: And that's why I came to bring, really, this is why I came. Because I very much appreciate it. Over the years, I mean, Harold, I've picked his brain a bunch of times on different chemicals and different ways of treating things and, and he's never asked for a penny. Which is very, I mean, very meaningful. And, uh, I've never bought anything from you guys. And I appreciate it.
[00:21:51] Eric Knight: You did try the clarifier once.
[00:21:52] Jonathan Heller: Yeah, we tried that. I did buy a few things. But, I'm sure that's not what changed the, the, the books.
[00:21:57] Jarred Morgan: We're still working on that P&L for a long time.
[00:21:59] Eric Knight: That really changed the trajectory of our company.
[00:22:01] Jonathan Heller: It did. Exactly.
[00:22:01] Jarred Morgan: We're really working off of it.
[00:22:03] Jonathan Heller: Although I mentioned that one of the things now it's very realistic 'cause now you guys are selling chlorine. That would be very interesting to discuss because that's not theoretical. That's something really. Subscription service for our customers. That would be very, very interesting for us.
[00:22:17] Eric Knight: What percentage of your business is in Israel versus the United States?
[00:22:21] Jonathan Heller: About 70 percent of our business is international, and about 50 percent is in the U. S.
[00:22:28] Eric Knight: Which is international, outside of Israel.
[00:22:30] Jonathan Heller: Yeah, we're based in Israel. We sell, we have Mikvahs from, I don't know, just in the past week we've sent to Venice, to Germany, to, oh, even Ghana in Africa, and Bangkok. We have them all over the world.
[00:22:41] Eric Knight: That's amazing.
[00:22:41] Jonathan Heller: And we have zero sales people on the team.
[00:22:44] Eric Knight: There's a need, and you're a specialist.
[00:22:46] Jonathan Heller: Yeah. We just focus getting the products better and better. That's all we focus on. There you go. And, uh, if we had that extra key, you know, once they got our system, and then we have a subscription service for the chemicals, for people who actually specialize in it, that would be beautiful.
[00:22:59] And that's something we should discuss after this podcast.
[00:23:01] Eric Knight: All right. Awesome. thank you for being here.
[00:23:03] Jonathan Heller: Thank you so much. Great to see you. It's always a pleasure. for everything.
[00:23:05] Eric Knight: And I'm praying for your country and your people, man.
[00:23:07] Jonathan Heller: Thank you. I appreciate that very much.
[00:23:10] Eric Knight: Thank you for these tasty treats. They look delicious.
[00:23:12] Jonathan Heller: Thanks so much, guys. How do I sign up for the podcast?
[00:23:18] Eric Knight: You better be recording. It's called Rule Your Pool.
[00:23:21] Jonathan Heller: Rule Your Pool.
[00:23:22] Eric Knight: Yeah, you can find it in any podcast store. I love it. That's hilarious. I love it. You've been on the podcast before you listen to it? Yeah. Oh my gosh. Yeah, do you mind taking a picture?
[00:23:34] Here, take a picture. Have a seat, man. That's hilarious.
[00:23:41] Jonathan Heller: On a very serious note, really, I really have a lot of gratitude for you. I'm serious.
[00:23:45] Eric Knight: I'm learning from you, man. Thank you.
[00:23:46] Jonathan Heller: No, at the time, over the seven years ago, I drove you crazy about 50 bucks of clarifier. Trying different stuff and searching for solutions and now, uh, I could be here and my whole team in Israel is selling and we're all over the world and you were one of those first guys in the beginning.
[00:24:05] Who gave me the, like a little bit of help when I was like clueless.
[00:24:09] Jarred Morgan: Time.
[00:24:09] Jonathan Heller: Really I, I cannot thank you enough for that. You and Harold are really great. So
[00:24:13] Eric Knight: we're happy to help you.
[00:24:14] Jonathan Heller: Thank you so much.
[00:24:15] Eric Knight: We're all about whatever you need to do, man.
[00:24:17] Jarred Morgan: Awesome. Thanks Jonathan.
Kevin Cooley - Goudy Pools
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[00:24:19] Eric Knight: Well, Jarred, there's a lot of people we could talk to. I would like to get Miguel's opinion because he's been teaching virtually at this thing, but he's never been here in person.
[00:24:26] He had COVID two years ago, and then he was stuck overseas last year, and he did it virtually. And I was actually in the Spanish class with him. Let me call him over here. Hey, Miguel.
[00:24:35] Jarred Morgan: I was there too. And he actually, he did a phenomenal job on the fly, making it virtual last year. Yeah. But, uh, we'll see what he thinks about this year.
[00:24:44] Miguel Chavez: I have another guest for the podcast if you're up for it. He's right here. He's a true Orenda.
[00:24:49] Jarred Morgan: Oh yeah, have a seat.
[00:24:50] Eric Knight: Well, hold on. Let, uh, we'll do you first because Miguel can stay. We're actually gonna make a pivot here. We're gonna go to Kevin Cooley from Goudy Pools. Have a seat.
[00:25:00] Kevin Cooley: Alright, I'm on the spot.
[00:25:01] Eric Knight: My man. How've you been?
[00:25:02] Jarred Morgan: You're here. You're here. Kevin, my pleasure.
[00:25:04] Eric Knight: Your whole company. I saw Chet and Ali earlier. They came by and Ali got a headshot. Chet refused. I hope he listens to this and realizes that he missed an opportunity.
[00:25:13] Kevin Cooley: He's not out of character.
[00:25:15] Eric Knight: Kevin, what's going on, man? How do you like this show?
[00:25:18] Kevin Cooley: It's been great, yeah. And I just came from probably, uh, the best session I've been to in years here.
[00:25:23] Eric Knight: It's definitely not ours.
[00:25:24] Kevin Cooley: It was not yours.
[00:25:25] Eric Knight: It's definitely not ours.
[00:25:26] Kevin Cooley: What got you here won't move you forward, and it was all about, um, how everybody has their limbic system response to any situation, any trigger that happens. And how to put yourself in a mentality of, switching to a different level of thinking.
[00:25:40] So not having your initial either fight or flight reaction and switching into how can we resolve this situation.
[00:25:46] Jarred Morgan: Wow.
[00:25:46] Kevin Cooley: And how that ties into, to leadership, so.
[00:25:48] well.
[00:25:48] Jarred Morgan: See, I like sessions like that. That are helping you how to run a business and focus on certain things. Not just how to net a pool or whatever. We can all watch a video or get that with practice. But changing mentality, and how you operate. That's awesome. That's truly helpful stuff.
[00:26:05] Eric Knight: We first met your company, oh gosh, several years ago. I think it's right after covid. Although I had talked to Chet. So I actually swam in college against Towson, which is where Chet and Ali graduated a year before I came in. But we had that connection swimming. We know a lot of the same people. And I remember coming to the office like, was it right before christmas?
[00:26:24] I don't remember. So what's your role with Goudy Pools? And what keeps you coming back to the show with all your teams? Because you guys always bring your whole team here.
[00:26:31] Kevin Cooley: Yeah, we bring our whole team every year. Um, I'm the service manager at Goudy Pools, so pretty much everything on our service side. We do everything from basic weekly service all the way up to full renovations.
[00:26:43] And we've actually just started building pools as well. Um, but I manage anything that's on the service side.
[00:26:48] Eric Knight: Got it.
[00:26:49] Kevin Cooley: So, we come every year.
[00:26:51] Eric Knight: They ask good questions, they think things through. I'm impressed with your team.
[00:26:54] Jarred Morgan: There's a lot of them because they all came by and got a headshot in our photo booth. There was a lot of them.
[00:26:59] Kevin Cooley: It's a good group of guys and having that kind of, um, you know, happy mentality of everybody that they're able to joke around and have fun together is really important.
[00:27:08] And that's one of the really important things for coming here. It's really great for them to go to the classes and learn new things. But to come as a team together and have everybody here on a paid for work trip that is a combination of learning things but also fun and some time you get to spend with your coworkers outside of the normal everyday, okay, we're here to work. Um, is huge,
[00:27:30] So I think we won't stop bringing everyone here and that's the biggest reason it's for the team morale and getting everyone together.
[00:27:37] Eric Knight: Well, you're also, every time you're here, you're separating yourselves further from people who don't make the time to come educate. And it shows. Like everybody in your company is here. They're all taking classes.
[00:27:46] Jarred Morgan: This is an investment for you guys because there's a lot of people.
[00:27:48] Kevin Cooley: Yeah.
[00:27:48] Eric Knight: It's a lot of money too. It's a lot of time out. It's not just dollars. It's opportunity costs. Like you're investing in your people and that's a really good thing. I know we've been texting back and forth about certain pool questions or problems that happen. I mean, everybody's got some problem pools.
[00:28:02] So my question to you is, ever since adopting our program a few years ago, what's your feedback? Be bluntly honest.
[00:28:08] Jarred Morgan: We're clearly going to edit this to our favor either way.
[00:28:10] Kevin Cooley: Yeah, you can cut out all the bad parts.
[00:28:12] Eric Knight: We're going to have sentences like, it sounds great.
[00:28:16] Kevin Cooley: No, it's been night and day. And I've told a few of your co workers today, uh, when we made the jump, it was a lot of new changes and new things. Getting everybody to really understand it all, and on board with it took a little bit of time. But looking back three years until now, it was like a major overhaul back then.
[00:28:37] So it was, gosh, we got to get our calcium levels up, we got to do this differently. Everything we did with water chemistry, specifically focusing on LSI instead of on just those numbers and those ranges. So it was a complete overhaul and now year over year. We're just doing minor little changes and tweaks to make it better than it was.
[00:28:57] Every step along the way, you guys have been great. And every time we have a problem and we come to you, you tell us something, we implement it, and we've never had a situation where we go ... Orenda told us that? We shouldn't have listened to him. It's always been like, yep, they were right. Right. Again, right. Again,
[00:29:14] Jarred Morgan: Our customers love it. But between the two of us, Eric's had some terrible ideas.
[00:29:18] Eric Knight: The tension here we could cut with a knife, but let's not talk about our own internal issues. There have been some mystery problems that you guys have brought to us that sometimes it doesn't involve our products.
[00:29:27] I'm thinking of the one that Chet called me about where he had to flock it. There was, and part of the reason was, it wasn't something that our chemicals could address. You already use our products, right? This was a pool that had just been taken on service. It wasn't a pool that they'd ever had. They were taking it over, and it was a swamp.
[00:29:42] And, we have a green pool cleanup. But this green pool cleanup took a lot out, but it didn't take everything out. There was this, you remember this pool? Like, we just needed to break this water.
[00:29:50] Kevin Cooley: Was it, was it this year?
[00:29:51] Eric Knight: Nah, last year or the year before. And I told them, you need to flock this pool and vacuum it off. Shut off circulation, get it to the floor, and vacuum it out. And
[00:29:58] Kevin Cooley: Two, two years ago, do you remember what the cause was?
[00:30:01] Eric Knight: I don't remember what the cause was, but I remember the flock did it and he vacuumed it out and you recovered that pool.
[00:30:06] Kevin Cooley: Yeah.
[00:30:06] Eric Knight: What was the cause? Do you know?
[00:30:07] Kevin Cooley: Uh, we went to that pool many, many times, day after day after day, trying just about everything you could to resolve this issue. Um, aside from flock, but just, uh, staying in scale because it was green and we're trying to figure out, look, chlorine level's good. It's not algae.
[00:30:24] What is going on here? Why won't this color go away? The filter's getting cleaned daily. We're balancing it perfectly. And, uh, sure enough, CJ went out there and and thankfully he's got the eye for it. He noticed, sure enough, there's a firework sitting next to the pool. And we made the connection between the fireworks that they had been launching and what came from them and fell down into the pool, turning it green.
[00:30:51] And that's when we flocked it and I think we used a purge dose of SC-1000 as well. Turned it right around, got it clean. But unfortunately, we were weekly servicing that pool. And it came out of nowhere green and we never have this happen. So it was like, what is going on? Fortunately, when we found the answer, it wasn't us.
[00:31:09] Yeah. But I,
[00:31:11] Eric Knight: I've been saying this a lot lately. And you guys know in your business just like most people do. A pool can either be a profit center for a pool service company and the customer wins in that situation because the pool is behaving well, right? Or it's a massive liability. In that sense, what were the costs?
[00:31:28] I'm not asking you to actually quantify it, but just think about the costs of going back day after day, chasing it, putting more stuff in and all the time not looking good towards the homeowner because the homeowner's like, well, these people don't know what they're doing. I'm really glad that you were able to identify. I'm glad we were able to provide a solution even though it wasn't ours.
[00:31:45] Figure it out, recover afterwards. Anytime, man. We're happy to do it. You guys have been a great customer of ours. We want to thank you for that. And as I say to all of our customers, if there's an issue, you've got to let us know. Because if we don't hear from you, we have no idea.
[00:31:57] So we appreciate that you guys do communicate very well. Do you listen to the podcast, by the way?
[00:32:02] Kevin Cooley: We do. I don't think I've ever listened to one live.
[00:32:05] Um, but, but we go and, and listen to certain ones or the videos you put out on YouTube, um, the articles you put out. So there's, I, I'm not sure what else might be out there, so I might be speaking out a term here, but the resources you have and the way you're doing things with water chemistry is just a total different ball game to what a lot of chemical manufacturers are doing. Our guys have learned a lot from the resources you've provided.
[00:32:30] Eric Knight: We appreciate you. Thanks for stopping by.
[00:32:32] Jarred Morgan: Kevin, thanks for stopping by, man, appreciate it.
Miguel Chavez - Orenda
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[00:32:36] Eric Knight: Alright, here's your 300 dollars, thanks for saying all that stuff. Alright, where'd Miguel go? Did we lose Miguel? Miguel! He gone.
[00:32:49] Jarred Morgan: He gone.. Miguel didn't want to do this anyways, so we're just going to speak for Miguel. He said it was awesome.
[00:32:54] Eric Knight: He said it was great. He was teaching a Spanish class earlier. I don't know if it was accurate or factual at all. I don't know what he was saying, but he seemed very confident saying it. Uh, I know you are very fluent in Spanish, I am not, so I can't really tell, but he really seemed like he had command over the class.
[00:33:12] Jarred Morgan: We did go stand in the room, though, to watch him teach for at least ten minutes. Yeah. And it, he looked great doing it.
[00:33:18] Eric Knight: Yeah, he really does. A good looking dude. So, he's got that going for him. Well, anyways, we're going to pause this until we find somebody else, so, uh, stay tuned. We will be right back with the Rule Your Pool podcast.
[00:33:32] Alright, we are back from our brief intermission where Jarred and I walked around this floor and saw it's a big floor this year.
[00:33:38] Jarred Morgan: It is a very big floor and we found Miguel.
[00:33:40] Eric Knight: We found Miguel that's the most important thing. Well, we didn't find him. I texted him and he came to us. It was a lot easier. We could have just texted him earlier.
[00:33:47] Jarred Morgan: I know it would have taken us probably two hours to walk this whole thing so it's a lot easier just to text him.
[00:33:51] Eric Knight: But my boy Miguel. You have been part of our company since 2020. You have been on the forefront, certainly, of the Spanish education, but you know our program just as well as anybody. But this is your first NESPA show.
[00:34:04] Miguel Chavez: It really is, yeah.
[00:34:05] Eric Knight: Two years ago, you had COVID. And then, last year, you were stuck because you were out of the country, right? And you did it virtually, and I was in there holding a microphone, having no idea what you were saying.
[00:34:16] Miguel Chavez: But we made it work.
[00:34:17] Eric Knight: Everyone in the room was nodding as if, I think they knew what you were saying. I'm not exactly sure.
[00:34:21] Miguel Chavez: That's just what I told them to do. Oh yeah. I told them to just nod, so my boss thinks that I'm doing a good job. They're like, yeah, he's doing a good job. It's usually what I do.
[00:34:30] It work. It's worked so far, you know.
[00:34:32] Eric Knight: Good for you.
[00:34:32] I
[00:34:32] Jarred Morgan: was gonna say, You taught a class this morning, seemed like you had good engagement. Eric and I were just in there literally just to watch you speak and command the room, but.
[00:34:41] Eric Knight: Yeah, you definitely look a lot more fluid. I've been watching you train for a few years. You clearly have command of what you're doing now. So, what's your impression of this show?
[00:34:49] Miguel Chavez: First of all, I'm really happy to be here. I'm really glad to have the opportunity to teach in Spanish and, and the demand, I mean, it seems to be growing with the years. Obviously, I don't have the comparison from the last couple years. But overall, as an industry, I think more companies and more manufacturers are investing in Spanish training and they're realizing that it's a very important part of our industry.
[00:35:15] So I'm really thankful to be part of that movement. And I like to partner up with people that also are training in Spanish. And there's very few of them, but it seems like every manufacturer, every brand out there is definitely putting an effort. I'd like to think that, uh, Orenda was one of the pioneers and now HASA has supported it very well too.
[00:35:37] So, it's been a great time. It's been a great opportunity and I'm glad we have a voice and I'm glad we have the opportunity to train these people and teach them in the language that they're more comfortable with.
[00:35:47] Eric Knight: Since I don't understand what's being said, I know you do get a lot of questions. What is the feedback you're hearing from these people?
[00:35:52] Miguel Chavez: Honestly, it varies. But a big part of them seem to be that this is something that they've heard for the first time.
[00:36:02] Eric Knight: I love that.
[00:36:02] Miguel Chavez: You know, especially when we're talking about things like the LSI or combined chlorine and things that are a little bit more complex. But they dig right into it, man. They love it. So, the fact that we have every other resource available just from their phone, they can access it, they can go listen to the podcast. They can watch the videos. It makes it very practical for them.
[00:36:29] Eric Knight: Certainly at this show there's a really well represented Spanish speaking population. We noticed this years ago, if you remember. We were missing out on a huge percentage of the people walking by just because we can't speak the language. So yes, we wanted to teach people in what they're comfortable with so that makes a huge difference. So we're grateful for it.
[00:36:45] Anything you want to say to the audience? Preferably in English, but if you want to make fun of us in Spanish, start with Jarred.
[00:36:53] Jarred Morgan: It's fair game. We're just going to nod our heads.
[00:36:58] I'm offended.
[00:37:01] Eric Knight: Well, you have a Spanish podcast. What's that called?
[00:37:13] Miguel Chavez: Controlando la piscina.
[00:37:14] Eric Knight: Where can they find that podcast?
[00:37:15] Miguel Chavez: On Spotify, Apple music, or directly through our app.
[00:37:19] Eric Knight: For the listeners out there, everything we're doing in English, Miguel is the man that is making it happen in Spanish. We want to be able to be, not just a multilingual company, we want everything that we're teaching these customers and, you know, homeowners, whoever, to be able to read it in their native language, and we will continue to expand that.
[00:37:36] Miguel Chavez: Including the private trainings. We also have the, we also host the private trainings, and a lot of times, you know, for one person, it's impossible to be at two places at once. But we do have the virtual option, too, that they can sign up. It's entirely free, and, and, uh, it's a good resource to use.
[00:37:53] Eric Knight: Yeah, and up here, just one final note, there are a lot of companies where they'll have, you know, 10 guys and three of them speak Spanish better than English. Or all of them speak Spanish depending on the business you're in. But the owner of the company may speak English just fine, but the whole crew doesn't, right?
[00:38:08] So if you are listening to this and you have Spanish speakers in your business and you want to up their game in water chemistry and learn what we're teaching, Miguel's the man. What's your email that you can put out? I guess we could put it in the show notes, but Jarred would never read them anyway.
[00:38:21] Miguel Chavez: It's miguel@orendatech.Com or ayuda@orendatech.com.
Closing
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[00:38:27] Eric Knight: Miguel, thank you so much. We're going to wrap here because, uh, there's customers here that need to talk to us. We appreciate all of you, 207, hopefully climbing after this, uh, listeners. We do like to have fun with this and we don't want to take ourselves too seriously, but what we teach, we do take seriously.
[00:38:42] We take your business seriously because we want you to be helped and have the best opportunity to be successful in the swimming pool industry. So thank you for listening.
[00:38:51] Jarred Morgan: I hope you like the new format. We tried to make this work and I know Eric fumbled through it a little bit, but, uh, we really do appreciate you listening, tuning in and keep hitting us with questions and reach out to us about new topics.
[00:39:03] Anything you want to know, happy to dig in, do the research and give you our honest feedback. So thank you.
[00:39:09] Eric Knight: Awesome. Thanks everybody. This has been episode 133 of the Rule Your Pool podcast. Take care.
[00:39:15] Miguel Chavez: 133? Geez.
[00:39:18]